Welcome to the www.LightOnVedicAstrology.com Forum. Click here to register

Discuss: Pre-Natal Epoch

For discussion on any other astrology topics like birth rectification, prashna, muhurta, mundane astrology, etc.

Moderator: spidey

Forum rules
READ Forum-Wide Rules and Guidelines NOTICE: OFFENSIVE POSTS WILL BE DELETED, AND OFFENDERS WILL HAVE ALL POSTS MODERATED.

Discuss: Pre-Natal Epoch

Postby JupiterLight » Mon May 02, 2011 7:05 am

Image

Im back and Im sticking my foot again in quick lime and soon ill sink in the Universe!

I was planning to write a review on a Book my teacher recommended " Retrograde Planets" By Grace Inglis (50/- Rupees from Giri - Sagar Publication), but I keep jumping from here to there (Gemini lagna / Airy + Common sign, Moon+Sun sign = Pisces Water + Common sign)... So i fluctuate like your sensex and therefore dont mind my constant rides...

Anyways, Ill keep a review and summary on Retorgrade planets soon in the Planets Forum.

The reason why I jumped from Retrograde to PNE (Pre Natal Epoch) is because, Planets which were Retro during your PNE and few days after your birth do effect you too.
Example: My mercury is direct on the day i was born, however 18 days later it turned retro. Saturn is direct at time of birth, turns retro 61 days later, and Jupiter which is Retro at time of birth, goes direct 17 days after my birth. So , when studying my progression charts, these Retro/Direct movement has an impact on my life too..


So I jumped to PNE.

First: General rule is Substract 273 days from Date of birth.
Easy Calculator online: http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadd.html
Calculate Lunar cycles http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=1990&n=0

Image


:arrow:

PNE is a very ancient concept. Known as the Trutine of Hermes,
or the Trutina Hermetis, and attributed to Hermes Trismegistus, it is cited in the
51st Centiloquy of Ptolemy’s Tetrabiblos 1 but is now generally considered to have
been written in the 10th century by the Arabic astrologer Ja’far Ahmet ibn Yusuf
ibn Ibrahim al-daya.

- The Trutine of Hermes, as cited in Ptolemy, is:
“ Make the sign occupied by the Moon at the time of birth the ascending sign at the
conception; and consider that in which she may be posited at the conception, or
the opposite one, as the sign ascending at the birth.”

- Trutine= is the relationship between a normal period of gestation
(approximately nine months before birth) and the moment of birth, depending
on the Moon and the lunar rhythm. This sets up a correlation between the chart
for the moment of conception and the chart for the moment of first breath, as the
physical body separates from the body of the mother.

- Its a method of determining the fecundity of the action, the length of pregnancy, and the resulting gender.

- success rate of this principle is not tabulated, we do know that the
method was absolutely part of the toolkit of the medieval and ancient astrologer.


- Why Link the Ascendant and the Moon?
In ancient and medieval astrology, the individual was thought to be represented
by the Ascendant; the ruler of the Ascendant and the rest of the chart indicated
the physical reality that surrounded a person and acted upon him.
The ancient and medieval astrologers could describe the capabilities of a person's soul and mental capacities in terms of the Moon and Mercury, but everything else to do with the person's character was limited to circumstantial factors. Hence, the
Ascendant was the most significant consideration for determining the character
and capabilities of an individual. And since the Moon was the beat of time used
to measure birth (the Pre Natal Epoch is based on the cycles of the Moon and
takes 8-10 lunations for childbirth, not 9 solar months. Hence the Moon, rather
than the Sun, becomes the beat of time used to measure childbirth) it became
extremely important to link these two measures in order to gain the best
outcome.[/quote]






:arrow: The Mathematics
- Mathematically, the relationship is:
1) The sign and degree of the natal Moon must be the same sign and degree as the Pre-Natal Epoch (PNE) Ascendant;
2) the sign and degree of the natal Ascendant must be the same sign and degree as the PNE Moon or its opposite sign (see Diagram **wherever**).

- A chart is constructed for the time when the Moon was in the exact degree of the natal Ascendant nine to ten months before birth. The resulting chart must have its Ascendant at the same degree and minute as the natal Moon, and the sign and degree of the natal Ascendant must be the same or opposite sign and degree as the Pre-Natal Epoch Moon.

The method I use is as follows:
1. Calculate the 8–10 lunar returns before birth, with the Moon set to
the degree of the natal Ascendant.
2. Look through the options offered to find the exact degree of the
PNE Ascendant as the degree of the natal Moon.
When counting back nine to ten months, there are always two possibilities for
the Pre-Natal Epoch chart. Both of these will have the Moon in the exact degree
of the natal Ascendant. However, in the process of adjusting the Ascendant to
the degree of the natal Moon, one chart will become more obviously correct as
the PNE Moon maintains its relationship by sign and degree to the natal
Ascendant.
Note: Freeing the Pre-Natal Epoch from having to be a rectification device means
that the natal Ascendant does not have to correspond exactly to the Moon of the
PNE chart but should at least be within 3° of it.
Besides the above, I do not reverse the latitude of birth to account for any
hemisphere change.


- "the ancients, not knowing about true conception, confused it with coitus, assuming that the actual fertilisation took place at the time of insemination.” 5 Therefore, references by Ptolemy and others to “the conception figure” or “the moment of conception” are, in fact, references to the moment of insemination or coitus.

- PNE are the charts for sexual moments which are incredibly successful in producing a child. They are the charts for physical endeavours which cause fertilisation to occur. They are the charts for the beginnings of a journey which has, as its outcome, the birth of a human being.


Modern Use
- In modern times, the Trutine of Hermes, or Pre-Natal Epoch, has been more
frequently used to look backwards in time than to look forwards — that is, more
to rectify the birth time than to ascertain fruitfulness of sexual union.

- So, what if we free the Pre-Natal Epoch is freed from the shackles of having to be a rectification device? What if we allow it to become a piece of information in its own right? A chart which describes the potential of a sexual action that is
ultimately successful in producing a child must surely show the seeds of actions
which ripen in the womb to become formed behaviour patterns. If we take this
stance, then the Pre-Natal Epoch might be telling us something quite different. It
may be showing us the drive behind the natal chart, the unmanifest energies,
latent potentials, or raw resources of the psyche prior to the birth process — the
"underbelly" of the natal chart which, if acknowledged consciously, can help us
to understand many inner drives not necessarily shown by the natal chart.

- Since the Pre-Natal Epoch is based on the cycles of the Moon, we can carry the
model even further and say that, just as the natal chart shows us the externally
driven Solar Hero’s journey (no matter how yin the chart might be), the Pre-
Natal Epoch may show us the lunar, or internal side of ourselves — the feminine,
interior, or spiritual side.

- This article proposes that the Pre-Natal Epoch chart can be delineated as an
authentic chart in its own right, rather than a theoretical concept or rectification
device, a chart which can be read in actuality for behavioral patterns which is as
intimately connected with the natal chart as yin is to yang. The Pre-Natal Epoch
chart can thus show us the shape and form of the incoming energy — what is
potentially there, as opposed to what is physically there in the natal chart — and
give us valuable information about a person that is not necessarily apparent from
the natal chart. It can also tell us how aspects may have improved or degraded
during the time in the womb — the decisions an individual has made in the
womb about the expression of those aspects.





Conception time is known as pre-natal epoch theory in western system and Bailey stands out in this field. The same is known as adhana lagna in Jaimini system (vide 3rd adhyaya - 4th pada) and also Nisheka in Prarasari system. Several exponents like Jaimini, Parasara, Shuka, Garga, Varahamihira and Samara Simha have perused the subject.

Skeptics argue that it is easy to cast a chart for the time of birth and simply for this reason astrologers give importance to time of birth. We can find out the adhana lagna, from the time of birth and make a chart for adhana lagna. In my humble experience, consistent results were not found either in Hindu methods or in Bailey's pre-natal epoch theory. Further, it is hard to collect highly personal details like time of conception even for research purposes. Even the mother may not know such details. When such charts are practically not available, the adhana lagna and pre-natal epoch would become only a hypothesis!

Compared to this intricate problem, it is a better option to depend on the time of birth as the skeptics say and it would be most reliable. The birth time would be the time when the infant assumes a new life. There is not much time difference between shirshodaya, patana and cutting of the umbilical cord. Shirsodaya time is more accurate as at this instance, the baby will gasp for air, triggering independent chemical reactions in its body.
Last edited by JupiterLight on Mon May 02, 2011 7:22 am, edited 5 times in total.
❀Do not covet others wealth. Every Karma Boomerangs❀
The vidya of Jyotisha is all about looking for patterns
User avatar
JupiterLight
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
 
Posts: 617
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:25 am

Re: Discuss: Pre-Natal Epoch

Postby JupiterLight » Mon May 02, 2011 7:06 am

Were you born slightly before or slightly after the Full Moon? This is a key detail that we must know to determine if the Moon was increasing in light or decreasing in light.

Before Full Moon = Increasing in Light
After Full Moon = Decreasing in Light

As for whether the Moon was above or below the Earth, simply tell me what house it is located in.

1st - 6th houses = Below the Earth
7th - 12th houses = Below the Earth

Image
Last edited by JupiterLight on Mon May 02, 2011 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
❀Do not covet others wealth. Every Karma Boomerangs❀
The vidya of Jyotisha is all about looking for patterns
User avatar
JupiterLight
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
 
Posts: 617
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:25 am

Re: Discuss: Pre-Natal Epoch

Postby JupiterLight » Mon May 02, 2011 7:12 am

Four Laws of the Epoch

1. When the Moon at birth increases in light, it will be on the ascending degree of Epoch, and the Moon at Epoch will be on the ascending degree at birth.

2. When the Moon at birth decrease in light, it will be on the decreasing degree at Epoch, and the Moon at Epoch will be on the descending degree at birth.

3. When the Moon at birth is (a) increasing in light and below the horizon, or (b) decreasing in light and above the horizon, the period of gestation is longer than the norm.

4. When the Moon at birth is (a) increasing in light and above the horizon or (b) decreasing in light and below the horizon, the period of gestation is shorter than the norm.


Four Orders of Epoch

1. Moon above horizon and increasing
in light.......... 273 days minus x.
2. Moon above horizon and decreasing
in light.......... 273 days plus x.
3. Moon below horizon and increasing
in light.......... 273 days plus x.
4. Moon below horizon and decreasing
in light.......... 273 days minus x.


It is to be understood that the 273 days referred to in the above table is the normal period of gestation, or nine solar or ten lunar months. This normal period is increased or decreased in accordance with the distance of the Moon from either the Ascendant or Descendant, and "x" is a certain number of days corresponding to this distance obtained by dividing the distance in degrees by thirteen degrees, the latter being the average daily motion of the Moon.

When making the count, count to the Ascendant (AC) when the Moon is increasing in light, and to the Descendant (DC) when the Moon is decreasing in light. Another more definite way of stating this would be: In orders Nos. 1 and 4 the distance in degrees of the Moon from the horizon last crossed (AC or DC), divided by thirteen, gives "x", or the number of days by which this period is decreased; and in orders Nos. 2 and 3 the distance of the Moon in degrees from the horizon which it is approaching, divided by thirteen, gives the number of days by which this period is increased.
Last edited by JupiterLight on Mon May 02, 2011 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
❀Do not covet others wealth. Every Karma Boomerangs❀
The vidya of Jyotisha is all about looking for patterns
User avatar
JupiterLight
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
 
Posts: 617
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:25 am

Re: Discuss: Pre-Natal Epoch

Postby JupiterLight » Mon May 02, 2011 7:17 am

❀Do not covet others wealth. Every Karma Boomerangs❀
The vidya of Jyotisha is all about looking for patterns
User avatar
JupiterLight
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
 
Posts: 617
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:25 am

Re: Discuss: Pre-Natal Epoch

Postby JupiterLight » Mon May 02, 2011 7:45 am

:arrow: BTW: I totally Understand if no1 likes this topic, i have spent 5 hours in calculation of PNE now and Im so confused that im like f*** it and Im getting back to Retrograde Planets.
Maths and me are not bestfriend :mrgreen:
❀Do not covet others wealth. Every Karma Boomerangs❀
The vidya of Jyotisha is all about looking for patterns
User avatar
JupiterLight
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
 
Posts: 617
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:25 am


Return to Birth Rectification, Prashna, Muhurta, etc.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests