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Who killed the Girl ?

Postby astroboy » Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:40 pm

Good day to you all,

The girl in question passed away on the 30th of june 2010 @ 19.09 hrs. @ Davangere The only thing we need to find out is, who is the killer amoungst the 9 planets.


Birth details are April 13th 1986 @ 1.45 AM @ Davangere Karnataka.


best regards,
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby chaks » Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:51 pm

You can find him but can't book him under IPC, could you? :D
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby Meena » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:34 pm

Good day Astroboy,
It doesn't appear to be a natural death. I feel the parents (Sun and Moon) are responsible for her death mostly connected with a love affair.Now it is your turn to explain. :)
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby Basab » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:53 pm

Astroboy,

I checked the chart. She was running Rahu-Saturn period, and in astrology, they both are unconditional killers, i.e., they can be marakas irrespective of their lordships and placement in a chart. Otherwise, Mars in the 8th house of longevity from the ascendant is a bad transit. Not getting much reason for the untimely death and that too in this period.
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby chaks » Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:09 pm

I get sun-moon-sat periods. Saturn had just started his PD on 28-6-10. The lagna is in Saturn's star and moon is in ketu's star. Sade sati is underway. Saturn is malefic from the moon owning 6th and 7th houses and could be the killer. Bear in mind I am just a beginner in astrology.
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby Basab » Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:26 pm

Chaks,

I think you have cast a wrong chart. The ascendant is Capricorn, the Moon sign is Taurus, and the period she was running when she died was, Rahu-Saturn-Venus.
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby chaks » Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:32 pm

Thanks Basab, you are right. I entered the co-ordinates manually and the time zone went awry. Yes, its Rahu-sat-venus she was running and I am none the wiser as to what caused the death.
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby lovacrs » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:29 pm

I was just wondering Ra and Sa are both owners of 2nd house Aq.
Can not this explain the timing?

I also notice that Ve dasha ends on 17th July. With a little adjustment
in birth time the timing can become Ra-Sa-Su, with Su being the 8th
lord.
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby Basab » Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:38 pm

Lovarcs,

You are right!! I don't know how I missed it. 2nd house is a maraka house in astrology, and Saturn as the 2nd lord and Rahu the lord of Aquarius, both were killer planets for her. Another thing, Rahu acts like Saturn, just like Ketu acts like Mars, so Rahu must have acted like Saturn, the 2nd lord for her. But then, I really wonder why she got such a short life.
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby astroboy » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:40 am

Good day to you all,

before I start I would like to bow down to the 9 planets, because only they can play this game to perfection.

I would like to thank my Guru for giving me the knowledge to analyse this chart. I would also like to thank Trisha the girl who gave me the opportunity to study her life in detail. I hope God will be kind enough to ensure that she is never born again and is granted Moksha.


This is for you Trisha. thank you for being part of my life. May your soul rest in peace.


The lagna is Makara. The lagna lord is caught in between Kuja and Guru. Guru is a utter Malefic for Makara lagna because he is the 12th and the 3rd lord. The lagna lord is in a Badaka sign, Retrograde and caught in between two 1st rate Malefics Ketu and Kuja. Thus the lagna is weakened to a great extent.


Ravi the 8th lord is in the 3rd with the 6th lord. Chandra the Maraka and the 7th lord is in the 5th, in exaltation and should have provided much needed support to this beautiful soul but alas, Chandra is in the 8th lord's Nakshatra. Chandra is now flat as a tire on a Mercedes and can do nothing to help the cause.


The irony of the whole story is that the yoga running at the time of birth was "Ayushman". The planets are a strange lot and seldom reveal their secrets. The Hora lord at the time was of the 6th lord Budha, the Mahakala lord at the time of birth was Budha and the Kala lord was Saturn the Maraka lord. These 3 factors essentially demolished "Ayushman" at the time of birth for Budha is the 6th lord in debilitation associated with the 8th lord Ravi and is on rent in Guru's pent house. the trouble here is that Ravi the 8th lord goes and sit's in Budha's Nakshatra, now you realise that the stage is set for a screw up of the century.

Now let's see what dasha Scheme we can apply to assess the native's life. Let us examine our favorite Dasha Scheme, the 'Vimshottari' dasha scheme. the Dasha running at the time of death is that of "Rahu / Shani / Shukra / Budha

My guru is very clear on this dictum " For death to occur there must be a association of the 6th lord, the 8th lord, the Maraka lord and the Badaka lord."

Look at the Dasha scheme, there is no rational explaination as to how Rahu could be the killer along with Shani because Shani is also the Lagna Lord.

Now let us use a alternative Dasha Scheme.

First choice is the "Ashtottari" dasha. This dasha is a conditional dasha which is rarely used. now let us see what we get with this dasha.


death has occured on 30th June 2010 at 19.10 hrs

Ashtottari dasha
Chandra (Maraka)/ Budha (6th lord) / Budha / Budha / Guru 12th lord in the 2nd )


Budha is the 6th lord
Guru is in the 2nd
Chandra is a maraka


Ashtottari dasa is perhaps the most popular dasa system in India after Vimsottari dasa. Sage Parasara listed it as a conditional dasa applicable only in some charts. The conditions for it's applicability are highly controversial.

In this system, the sum of all dasas is 108 years. Ashtottari means “Ashtottara sata”, i.e. one hundred and eight. Because poornaayush (full life) of a man is 108 years, some scholar's have suggested that Ashtottari dasa is best used as an ayur dasa, i.e. a dasa that shows longevity.

There are three different views on the applicability of Ashtottari dasa:

(1) Ashtottari dasa is applicable in all charts.
(2) Ashtottari dasa is applicable if Rahu, who is not in lagna, is in a quadrant or a trine from lagna lord.
(3) Ashtottari dasa is applicable for daytime births in Krishna paksha (darker fortnight) and night time births in Sukla paksha (brighter fortnight).

Some people use Ashtottari dasa as an ayur dasa and see longevity in it. Some other people use Ashtottari dasa as a phalita dasa. Because only chara karakas, i.e. Rahu and the seven planets, have dasa's under the Ashtottari dasa scheme, it may also be suggested that it shows events related to sustenance, achievements, Raja yogas and moksha (just like chara karakas do). Some people, however, prefer to see all matters in Ashtottari dasa.

Now there is some sense in the entire Scheme. Chandra is the Maraka lord, Budka is the 6th lord, debilitated in 12th lord's nakshatra, And Shani the Lagna lord sits in the Badaka lord's Rashi.



So the basic question. How did the girl die ? The girl died of a failed liver. Guru is the Karaka for the liver. Look at Guru's position. Guru is in a maraka house. Here is a neat trick to predict what would have gone wrong in a native's life.
Look at the 6th house star sub lord. The planet who is the sub lord is the giver of the disease, and when that 6th lord is associated with a maraka house and the 6th lord, predict dire consequences. here Guru is in a maraka house and the 6th Lord is in Guru's Nakshatra. The Antar dasha was of the 6th lord, the PD was of the 6th lord the SD was of the 6th lord.

At the time of death, Guru was in the 3rd house, Badaka lord Kuja was in the 8th house and Chandra was in the 2nd house in Kuja Nakshatra aspected by Kuja the Badaka lord.


Trust this helps.
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby Meena » Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:23 am

Sad ! An young girl is sacrificed at the altar of 9 planets ,knowing her fate in advance.As Basabji says destiny is final.
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby astroboy » Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:39 am

Meena's ji, this girl's horoscope came to me about 7 months back to be matched with a boy who was in love with her. I being the great Pessimist rejected the match on the ground that she had a strong Kuja Dosha and the fact that the 4th lord was in the 12th. From chandra lagna Kuja is in the 8th. I said no, they dilly dallied and called it off. Had they got married on my reccomendation I would have had to buy a gun and blow my brains out. Some times what ever happens happens for the best.
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby sriramc » Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:47 am

Sun as the 8th lord is weak in gandantha. He is also the lord of the 22nd drekkana. Both sun and sat are in sarpa drekkana where as rahu and sat in kroora drekkana. Death during rah-sat-sun is possible considering that sat is also a maraka being 2nd lord. these periods in vimshottari come very close to the time of death.

rgds
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby Meena » Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:58 am

Dear Astroboy ji,
Liver failure may not be true.I feel as per horoscope and time of event it is death by force.You can try for the real cause and can be seen through astrology.
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby sriramc » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:15 am

Another point is that Lagna cusp is at uttarashada 4th pada (nakshatra of the 8th lord sun). The lagna is also in a krura & nigala drekkana.
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby lovacrs » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:34 am

Astroboy ji,

Without meaning any disrespect, I would like to say a few words (to help me unlearn more :lol: ).

Selecting Ashtottari just to match an event post-facto, to a learner like me, looks like trying to umpire wc match
on wimbledon rules, unless Ashtottari is also able to explain all the past events of her life. If you use one of the
50 odd dasha systems, I feel any event can be justified in any chart. For eg., in Ashtottari, Mo-Me-Ju comes before
Mp-Me-Me and death could have happened earlier. Also for a Makara lagna Me owning a trine and being a friend
of lagnesh is far less competent in killing the native (joinlty with Mo) than say Su or Sa. Su MD did not precipitate
the event.

For e.g, I noticed that even in Vimshottari if we take it from Aadhaana star (8th) the timing matches to the
period of Su-Sa-Mo. Even from Janma taara, it will also be very difficult to explain why death did not take
place in Su MD or Mo MD.
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby astroboy » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:03 pm

Good day to you lovacars ji,

You wrote,

If you use one of the 50 odd dasha systems, I feel any event can be justified in any chart.


You are absolutely right. we can explain every event using the 50 odd dasha systems. But what we are doing here is just a post Mortem. When this horoscope came to me the last thing I would have seen is death. My guru always say's that the first thing you should do when you get a horoscope for marriage is to see if the native has "Ayushya". I failed to see this aspect when I matched the horoscope's. After all who would expect a healthy girl to die at the age of 24 ? It's very uncommon, am I right ?

As far as dasha Scheme's go, I chose Astottari because the horoscope fit both the criteria given for it's applicability. It's the next widely used dasha system after Vimshottari. If Vimshottari is applied I fail to find any valid reason for Shani to kill the girl when he is also the lagna lord and was posited in the 9th house in Gochara. He could have killed her when he was in the 8th In Leo, but he did not, so why would he do it when he came to the 9th ?


Rahu / Shani / Shukra was in operation at the time of her death. Rahu has all the time in the world to kill her, but he did not. Shani was in the 8th from 2007 onwards but he did not kill her, so why now ? Rahu was in the lagna in 2008/9 , he should have killed her then, But she was busy planning her marriage. So there is a loop hole we need to cover up.

Now look at the Ashtotarri dasha Scheme, she saw Shukra / Ravi /Chandra MD's. As you rightly pointed out Ravi could have taken her. but see the dictum I have mentioned for death to occur. My guru is very clear on this dictum " For death to occur there must be a association of the 6th lord, the 8th lord, the Maraka lord and the Badaka lord." . There is another dictum that is used widely " For Makara Lagna Ravi does not get "Astamadipathya dosha". Meaning Ravi will not act like the 8th lord in his dasha. I being the pessimest do not subscribe to the last dictum, But in this case it seems to have worked wonders.

Look at Chandra. He is the Maraka, was in the Maraka sthana at the time of death, Is in the 8th lord's Nakshatra in the rashi chart, Budha is the 6th lord in debilitation. Budha is in the lagna lord's Rashi. here starts the trouble. At the time of death the running dasha was Chandra / Budha / budha / budha. Guru the culprit is in the 2nd in the rashi chart in a maraka place and is associated with Budha because Budha is in Guru's rashi. The girl died of a disease. She had a failed liver. I thing Ashtottari explains these events best.




For death to occur there must be a association of the 6th lord, the 8th lord, the Maraka lord and the Badaka lord."

At the time of death Kuja (Natal Badaka lord) was in the natal 8th house, 8th lord was with the natal 6th lord in the natal 6th. Kuja the badaka lord was aspecting the Maraka lord Chandra at the time of death. Note chandra is at 0deg20 in the 2nd house in Gochara. hence there is some truth to the dictum.

Trust this helps,
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby lovacrs » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:57 pm

Thanks Astroboy ji,

Ashtottari should be fine as long as all events are validated on Ashtottari. As a learner, switching
dasha systems to match events makes astrology a tool for correlation and not for prediction.

If you take the TOB as 2 am instead of 1:45, you will find lagna in Sravana and the event happening in
Ra-Sa-Su period. Sa can't disown its Maaraka rôle as lord of 2nd just because he is also lord of 1st.
The fact he is in enemy's house makes it easier for him to discharge his malefic roles with very little persuasion.

As for gochara, though it is in 9th house, he will be in 8th from chalit chart. He is in UPha Su's nakshatra.
Su on the other hand is in Aridra (Ra's nakshatra). Ra, incidentally is a avayogi for the native.

Well just a bit of loud thinking. Apologies if the decibel level turned out to be high :lol:
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby Basab » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:38 am

Astroboy,

It is very clearly mentioned in the "Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra" that Rahu and Saturn are unconditional killers, and they can kill irrespective of their placement and lordship in a chart. So Rahu-Saturn period is enough to prove that it is a marak period if one is to believe the BPHS. You don't need to go for Ashtotarri dasha to prove it. And why use Ashtotarri dasha leaving vimshottari dasha when the conditions for its applicability is controversial as you have mentioned yourself?

Now, Saturn as the 2nd lord from the ascendant and being placed in the 7th house from the Moon is a maraka and can kill, and Rahu, which acts like Saturn, also becomes a maraka for the chart. If you see in more details, Saturn is in the 8th house from Rahu, the dasha lord and again capable of giving death.

Coming to the liver issue causing her death, 5th house is the house of liver, and the planetary period was connected to that: Rahu the major period lord is afflicting the 5th lord Venus, Saturn the sub-period is aspecting the 5th house and afflicting it, and Venus the sub-sub period lord is the 5th lord, afflicted by Rahu.

Mars was transiting in the 8th house from the ascendant when the girl died, aspecting her 8th lord Sun and 6th lord Mercury in the birth chart, and Saturn in the 9th house in transit though apparently good, is aspecting the lagna lord, natal Saturn and the 6th and 8th lord Mercury and Sun respectively. So the influence of Saturn and Mars, strong malefics, on the 8th lord Sun, which is also the significator of health, and the 6th lord Mercury in the birth chart was very much capable of giving death, which it gave.

Rahu the dasha lord, if you notice, was transiting in the 8th house from the Moon and in the 12th house from the lagna, which is again not at all a favourable transit at any cost.

Now, Jupiter being the planet of liver gets double hammering by Saturn and Mars in transit itself: with Jupiter in Pisces in transit getting aspected by transiting Saturn and Mars.

If seen from chara dasha, she was running Gemini-Taurus period. Now, Gemini is the 6th house from the ascendant, and Ketu a malefic is in the 5th house (liver) from Gemini and aspected by GK, Moon (GK signifies disease in Jamini astrology). 8th lord from Gemini is in the 6th house and aspects the 8th house, but it was bad, even though it was aspecting its own house the 8th house. Mars, a malefic, was aspecting Gemini and the lord of Gemini, Mercury. Now coming to the sub-period Taurus, GK (disease) Moon is sitting in Taurus, which is the 5th house (liver) from the ascendant and shows health problems, which unfortunately led to her death. Mars goes to the 8th house from Taurus. Again here, the lord of Taurus Venus goes to the 12th house and is conjunct Rahu and aspected by Saturn, which afflicts Venus.
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby Meena » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:05 am

How can you expect an young girl of 24 years age to have such a liver disease causing her death?
What happened to medical treatment ? Is it due to her parents apathy? No information on this is given.
We have to satisfy by justifying her death by various astrological arguments which doesn't reflect the truth.
I am not convinced with the above justification.More information is required for correct astrological analysis.
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby astroboy » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:00 pm

Good day to you Meena ji,

you wrote,

It doesn't appear to be a natural death.


Can You explain how you came to that conclusion ? I would love to learn the method you used to arrive at this.

In the mean time let me tell you that the death was natural as far as I know. Point is that parents were ok with the match but a triffle disappointed. She was suffering for this problem from feb this year. I do not know what the exact cause of death was, but the parents say it was from a failure of the liver. I will try and gather more information. I feel a odd to go and ask knowing the parents will think that i am using her as a case study. I dont want to prod them and rekindle their bad memory.


Trust this helps,
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby Basab » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:49 pm

astroboy wrote:I feel a odd to go and ask knowing the parents will think that i am using her as a case study. I dont want to prod them and rekindle their bad memory.


You are absolutely right Astroboy. And honestly speaking, I was feeling bad analyzing her chart. I don't think we should discuss her chart anymore.
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby astroboy » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:09 pm

Basab ji,

My guru used to say that in some charts the planets hide their true intentions and motives so well that it blank's out the astrologers mind. This is one such horoscope. I was drained out by the time i could figure out what is happening. He always says that the dosha's in the horoscope can corrupt the mind of the astrologer. I used to not buy his statement, but i am slowly realising that he is right.


Best regards,
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby Basab » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:51 pm

astroboy wrote:I was drained out by the time i could figure out what is happening. He always says that the dosha's in the horoscope can corrupt the mind of the astrologer. I used to not buy his statement, but i am slowly realising that he is right.


Astroboy,

If you don't mind, would you please explain a bit more elaborately. If you don't want to share here, you can send me a PM too.
"You will understand the Gita better with your biceps, your muscles, a little stronger." -- Swami Vivekananda
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Re: Who killed the Girl ?

Postby astroboy » Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:42 pm

It's like this basab ji,

The planets do not want us to know what they are up to. The horoscope is a yantra of sorts. It's a 2 dimensional image of the sky's. This two dimensional image initially blinds you and foxes you. I am pretty much weak minded, sometimes when I see a horoscope I get so blinded that I forget where a planet's exaltation point is. This is why a good Jyothish will always make a pilgrimage every year to his Istha Devata's temple to regain the power the planets have taken away from him.

In the girl's case, I just could not figure out how death would have occured. I was so swayed by the placement of the Lagna lord in the 11th, the 2nd lord in the 11th, Shukra in a digbala position, Chandra lagna exalted, That I forgot the negative aspects of the horosocope.

After banging my head trying to get a rational answer and throughly fatigued,I took this horoscope to my guru to figure out how death would have occured when there are so many positive aspects, and then he told me, "what has gone worng with you? are you sniffing glue or petrol ? Look at where the lagna has fallen you moron, The lagna is in a enemy sign plonk in between Kuja and Ketu. what do you expect ? he continued, you have forgotten my main dictum, The lagna lord should not be combust, retrograde, debilitated, in a enemy sign, must be aspected by a benefic and not a malefic. You have forgotten the basic point. what kind of student are you ? Look at the Lagna. The lagna is in the 8th lord's nakshatra. The 8th lord is in the 6th lord's nakshatra. Where is the question of her having the immunity and the strength to fight a disease ?"

So I tucked my tail between my legs and floundered back home realising that with out the help of your Ishta devata, a astrologer is nothing. I reached home said a prayer and started afresh the next day morning. That's when the Ashtottari Idea popped up and the rest is history.


Best regards,
Through hard work and spiritual practices, a person gets honor and dignity. The lazy one who puts in no efforts is like a fool who allows salt to be spilled on the wounds of his misfortunes. The idler depending only on fate, achieves nothing. - K.N.Rao ji
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