Lagna, Lagna Lord, Moon. Atmakaraka and Navamsa Lagna

For discussion on planets, houses, signs, nakshatras, etc.
Forum rules
READ Forum-Wide Rules and Guidelines NOTICE: OFFENSIVE POSTS WILL BE DELETED, AND OFFENDERS WILL HAVE ALL POSTS MODERATED.
Post Reply
Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 7128
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:17 pm

Lagna, Lagna Lord, Moon. Atmakaraka and Navamsa Lagna

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:06 am

Hi Learned Members

Lagna is the place where the intelligence of the person is seen as well as his fate and fortune. It is the gatekeeper to the chart. By analogy it signify Mother Earth. Everything that is found here is for the individual self. If the lagna is bad, it means Mother Earth is impoverished. So how can the individual flourish in his other areeas of his life be it work or play?

Lagna Lord is the controller of the intelligence (Lagna). By analogy it is like the sky above Mother Earth. It controls how Mother Earth gets nourished. Is it via rain, shine or winds or storms? It is also the sky God and his attributes is dependent on which other Gods he associates with. If he is in decrepit, Mother Earth's prosperity would not last very long.

The Moon is the mind of the sky god. It determines to a large extent how the sky God behaves. This in turn is dependent on the sky God's immediate environment. Experience plays a large part in shaping the mind of the sky God. This in turn determines the kind of further experiences the sky god is willing to seek. Pleasurable experiences he would gravitate towards and sorrorwful or unpleasant experiences he would shy away.

If Lagna is strong but not the Lagna Lord in a person's cahrt, the person is blessed with a fortunate life. But he may not be able to sustain that kind of life and he would not be able to use his intelligence to further the blessings that he has. On the other hand if the Lagna Lord is strong but the Lagna is weak, the person can rise from even the most humblest circumstances. Preferably the 3rd lord should be strong as well as this lord would initiate the plans thought up by the Lagna Lord. But by itself Lagna Lord can get gains for oneself since it signfies gains in action (1st is the 11th to the 3rd).

Both Lagna and the Lagna Lord signifies the signature of the person.

Moon controls the mind and hence the performance of all the other planets in the chart including the Lagna Lord. If the Moon is weak, the Lagna Lord although strong, the actions may not hit on target. Hence the person's active intelligence is not properly focused to achieve the desired results. A more than an ordinary struggle is required before the person gets his fulfillment. Smooth functioning of the Lagna Lord when strong requires a strong Moon.

Moon signifies the personality of the person. It is something which is more than the signature.

When we take Vimsottari Dasa from the Ascendant, we see the fate of the person as he is blessed with since birth. When we take Vimsottari Dasa from the Moon, we see the fate of the person as he traverses through life. Because the Moon determines the perfromance of the Lagna Lord to a large extent, taking Vimsottari Dasa from the Lagna Lord is usually not that necessary.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong
Last edited by Khoo Hock Leong on Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 7128
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:17 pm

Re: Lagna, Lagna Lord and the Moon

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:21 am

Hi

What about the Atmakaraka?

Atmakaraka is the soul of the person. It is the essence of the person which he strives to be. Sometimes the means to achieving that is so painful that it hurts. Because it touches on the soul, it has something to do with the Sun and also Navamsa. In Navamsa, the sign the Atmakarak is placed is given due importantance and is called the Karakamsa. Taking the Karakamsa as an Ascendant, we come up with inner personality and fate of the indivudal. One that has to dig deeper and with more effort in order for it to surface.

My Moon in my chart is the Lgna Lord and the Atmakaraka. It is strong is Karakamsa and also quite strong as a Lagna Lord.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 7128
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:17 pm

Re: Lagna, Lagna Lord and the Moon

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:33 am

Hi

The Navamsa Lagna taken as an Ascendant pertains to the ethical side of your personality. It also signifies your prospects in life in general (although details of your prospects can be gleaned from D-40 - see my post under Divisional Charts). It signifies help you get from the divines and elders and gains in general throughout life (details of gains would be from D-11).

In that sense, Navamsa is the ONLY chart in the plethora of charts that we have that signify BOTH gains and prospects in a general way. It combines BOTH attributes.

Navamsa also signifies your relationship with God in a general way ie. your general spiritual life. Details of spiritual life are obtained from D-20.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

xlr8ed
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:00 am

Re: Lagna, Lagna Lord, Moon. Atmakaraka and Navamsa Lagna

Post by xlr8ed » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:57 am

Dear KHoo

Thank you for information .
But its very disappointing to know that so called LUCK and BAD LUCK only gets determined from LAGAN LORD or planets in it or placement of MOON or SUN.

My AL MOON is in LEO.. SUN HOUSE..UNLUCKY place for MOON to be ?..though I feel MOON affects a lot to me. :?

REgards!!

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 7128
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:17 pm

Re: Lagna, Lagna Lord, Moon. Atmakaraka and Navamsa Lagna

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:21 pm

Hi xlred

Well yes. The placement of planets with the Lagna Lord or the Moon as well as both of their dispositors do determine the fortunes of the person to a great extent. But also the 5th house lord and the 9th lord as well although I did not mention it in this post.

My intention here is more to distinguish between Lagna, Lagna Lord, Moon, Atmakaraka and Navamsa Lagna.

Moon is well placed in Leo because Sun is Moon's friend. The dispositor of Moon, the Sun also has a hand in determining the fortune of your chart as indicated in the 1st paragraph.

Any planets in AL is good provided the planet is a natural benefic. In the case of the Moon you have to determine whether it is waxing or waning. The good here means fortune that is obtained with happiness and no sorrow. Malefics on AL means fortune obtained with unhappiness and sorrow although with the natural malefic being a Yogakaraka, this defect is ameliorated like in my case. But the person can still be rather calculative and sharp.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

astro123
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1618
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:54 am

Re: Lagna, Lagna Lord, Moon. Atmakaraka and Navamsa Lagna

Post by astro123 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:07 pm

Khoo Hock Leong wrote:Hi xlred

Well yes. The placement of planets with the Lagna Lord or the Moon as well as both of their dispositors do determine the fortunes of the person to a great extent. But also the 5th house lord and the 9th lord as well although I did not mention it in this post.

My intention here is more to distinguish between Lagna, Lagna Lord, Moon, Atmakaraka and Navamsa Lagna.

Moon is well placed in Leo because Sun is Moon's friend. The dispositor of Moon, the Sun also has a hand in determining the fortune of your chart as indicated in the 1st paragraph.

Any planets in AL is good provided the planet is a natural benefic. In the case of the Moon you have to determine whether it is waxing or waning. The good here means fortune that is obtained with happiness and no sorrow. Malefics on AL means fortune obtained with unhappiness and sorrow although with the natural malefic being a Yogakaraka, this defect is ameliorated like in my case. But the person can still be rather calculative and sharp.

Warmest Regards




Hock Leong


Hi Khl

How to determine whether lagna is strong or not... eg- My asc is Capricorn and Asc Lord is Saturn well placed in the 9th and is strong and un-afflicted ..My lagna receives no planetary aspects so how to determine whether it is strong or not...I have YK benefic Venus in lagna ..Also The My AL is empty but gets full aspect from L6/L9 Mercury...Moon (bright) gets an aspect from Asc Lord Satrun and mars

thx
Beginner/Learner of Vedic Astrology

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 7128
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:17 pm

Re: Lagna, Lagna Lord, Moon. Atmakaraka and Navamsa Lagna

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:01 pm

Hi astro123

Your Lagna Lord Saturn in 9th is strong by virtue of placement in the trinal house. Saturn also is in its own sign. But malefics including Saturn in the 9th are not so good unlike Saturn which aspects 9th given by Bhavat Ratnakara. The purity of the 9th like ethics, compassion etc. is somewhat damaged. You can be harsh.

But Venus a Yogakarak in the 1st stengthens the Lagna.

You see what happens is that when you determine the strength of a Bhava like Lagna, you have to consider :

(1) The Karaka which is the Sun and Moon for the 1st.

(2) Aspects by planets. For Lagna aspects by the lord, Mercury and Jupiter helps boost Lagna's strength (stated in the classics). Aspects from other planets do not really boost the strength of the Lagna but of course I feel that it is still better than if there are no aspects.

(3) Planetes which are natural benefics and espcially Yogakarakas placed in the Lagna strengthens it. Natural malefics even if Yogakaraka can somewhat damage the lagna like the physical constituion, diseases and accidents.

(4) The Lagna Lord in angles and trines makes the Lagna strong.

When you determine the strength of the Lagna Lord it is a different sort of factors :

(1) Lagna Lord in angles, trines and aspecting the Lagna are strong. It should be well placed by sign and by Nkshatra.

(2) Its dispositors both by sign and Nakshatras must be strong. Criteria use for each of the two dispositors is the same as that for Lagna Lord.

(3) Retrogression if a natural benefic placed in exaltation or own sign in a non-Dusthana house is strong. If it is a natural malefic placed in exaltaion or own sign in a Dusthana house is strong. Reverse both cases when you are talkinga bout the planet being debilitated.

(4) Cetain planets in certain houses are strong. Like malefics in Uppachaya are strong, benefics weak. For debilitation is the other way round.

(5) Notwithstanding Vipreet Raja Yoga existing, it would still damage the Lagna Lord for planets which are ruling two signs - one of which is the sign on the Lagna.

(6) Lagna Lord conjuncting Sun, Moon and AL are strong.

(7) Lagna Lord aspecting or being aspected by many planets is strong.

For the factor when planets are placed in the Lagna :

(1) Better to have natural benefics and functional benefics to be in the Lagna.

(2) Mercury and Jupiter in Lagna makes the person have a status like a king. They are both Digbala in Lagna.

(3) Planets must not be combusted or in planetary war in Lagna. Eclipse on the Lagna is very bad.

(4) It is in generally better to have the North Node in Lagna rather than the South Node. South Node on Lagna can be rather debilitating in the sense that it may destroy the health and constituion of the person.

(5) Waning Moon is bad in Lagna (unless cancelled by other factors). So is a weak Moon. So is a natural malefic ruling the 4th of Moon. All these makes the person's mind either crooked, weak like unable to make decisions or suspicious in nature respectively.

(6) Moon and Mercury together in Lagna is bad unless the Moon is waning. The person may be prone to excess emotions or thinking excessively without coming to any quality decisions. Jupiter aspecting Moon and Mercury in Navamsa would help.

(7) Planets friendly to Sun or Moon are good if placed in Lagna. Reverse is the case if the planets are enemies to the Sun or Moon. That is why Venus in Lagna is not a strength actually but if conjuncting Rahu it strengthens it (Rahu conjuncting any planet in Lagna is good provided the planet is either ruling either an angle or a trine).

(8) All planets aspecting Lagna or in combination with dispositorship is a form of Raja Yoga.

(9) Good planets in 8th strengthens the Lagna if the Lagna at the same time has a natural benefic posited in it. Reverse is the case for bad planets in the 8th with natural malefics in Lagna. Good planets in 8th are the natural benefics including Mercury and Saturn but excluding Moon. Mars, Sun and Rahu. The latter four planets are bad in the 8th. Ketu in the 8th can be rather fiery if provoked especially if it conjuncts the Sun or Mars here.

(10) Planets from the 10th like Mars giving full aspect on the Lagna are good. 10th is the pinnacle on the horoscope.

(11) Any planets in mutual exchange between Lagna and the 10th Bhava or the lord of 10th Bhava goes into Lagna or vice versa enhances the status of the native.

(12) Sun or Moon ruling 8th going into Lagna is very good for health. It is as if the person has an impenetrable wall against diseases. So is the planet ruling 1st and 8th and the planet goes into its own sign in the 1st.

(13) Planets in Kendra and especially in their own signs strengthens the Lagna although for the natural malefics, better not to have BOTH Mars or Saturn in angles even if they are in their own signs but if not these two together, then two natural malefics in angles are still Ok like Sun in Leo in 4th and Mars in 10th in Aires. If you have no choice but have both Mars and Saturn in own signs in Kendra, then better to have Mars ahead of Saturn in the case of each planet ahead of the other by 90 degrees rather than Saturn ahead of Mars. Saturn ahead of Mars because of Saturn's backward aspect and Mars forward aspect, makes each of the planets even stronger.

(14) Most of the planets in the 5th, 9th and the 1st also strengthen the Lagna but the person can be rather uncompromising.

(15) Benefics flanking the Lagna are good in the 12th and 2nd. Planets in the 2nd are also good to help boost Lagna strength although watch out that the 2nd house is a killer house. These configurations are more for boosting the status.

(16) On the other hand malefics in the 11th and 3rd can boost the physical activity and strength of the Lagna. 3rd house planets enhance the use of practical intelligence and strength of the Lagna and 11th house can give gains to the Lagna both materially and physically.

AL is how people see you so it is not an excact replica of the Lagna. Strength in AL does not translate to strength in Lagna although strengh in Lagna can boost your image if the 10th houses is involved (see one of the factors above).

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong
Last edited by Khoo Hock Leong on Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:56 am, edited 3 times in total.

Sunjit86
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:21 am

Re: Lagna, Lagna Lord, Moon. Atmakaraka and Navamsa Lagna

Post by Sunjit86 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:28 pm

Hi Khoo,

You mentioned that Sun and Moon are the natural Significators for the 1st house, since in planet politics , they are like the "king" and "queen"

The questions is how do you actually tell the strength of the Sun & Moon?

My Example:

My Sun is in conjunction with ketu in the 4th house of Virgo. I believe it has lost directional strength. How does this affect my lagna?

Furthermore, i believe my moon is a waning moon, placed in an upachaya house (3rd house of Leo).

How do you actually determine the strength of the Sun & Moon? Is it the same as normal planets? Are there any factors to consider such as the tithi or nakshatra?

Besides that, my lagna lord is mercury in 5th house of libra with venus and jupiter is in 9th house of Aquarius. You mentioned that this is beneficial. The question with regards to Jupiter is why is its shadbala considerably lower than the rest? what determines Shadbala? how does it relate to strength? Is it strength of house or the graha?

How does rahu in the 10th house affect the lagna?

Also, if my atmakaraka and atmayakaraka are placed together in the navamsa,albeit the 3rd house of aries, does it constitute a raja-yoga?

My birth details for your reference:

2nd October 1986
Singapore
01.00AM

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 7128
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:17 pm

Re: Lagna, Lagna Lord, Moon. Atmakaraka and Navamsa Lagna

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:43 pm

Hi Sunjit

Any planets conjuncting ketu usually the planet finds it difficult to express itself normally in the sense that it tends to close up and the attributes become nebulous. Yes, the Sun loses directional strength in the 4th but it is still in its friend's house of the Moon which is both the significator, the backup significator and the natural ruler. And it also aspects the 10th house fully in the case of the Sun. So in that sense it is not that bad. Sun also does well generally in Kendra houses except for the 7th.

Waning Moon if its waning is not cancelled is a malefic and hence does well in Uppachaya houses. But preferably the Moon should be bright (at least 5 signs away from the Sun) so that it can be strong. 4 signs is still OK but anything 3 or below the Moon becomes terribly weak and the benefit of having a malefic in the Uppachay is lost. Moon in the 3rd is good for mundane affairs and both Moon and Mercury both has something to do with the mind with Mercury ruling knowing (using the mind to gain knowledge) and the Moon ruling the mind per se. So Moon does well in the 3rd if aspected by Mercury (natural ruler of a Bhava does not automatically come to planets placed in that Bhava in terms of effects unless the planets are aspected by them unlike Karakas). Moon is also in his friend's sign of Leo. But your Moon is teribly weak although Moon+Sun in your chart are best friends.

So Sun is slightly above average and Moon is below average.

Sun and Moon their strength is just like other normal planets including the basis for Nakshatras where they should be in Nakshatras of their friends like for Sun it would be those ruled by Jupiter, Mars and the Moon and for the Moon he should be in Nakshatra ruled by the Sun and Mercury.

Sun in Gemini, Moon in Capricorn and Aquarius are not good abodes for them as well. Mercury becomes the enemy of the Sun when Sun is in Gemini and Sun's honour can be at stake if Mercury is heavily afflicted and not otherwise. Moon in Aquarius can be unfortunate and wayward and in Cparicorn can lack human feeling and quite selfish.

Moon is auspicious in some tithis and some karanas and inauspicious in others. You can go to my post on Inauspicious births to see the Tithis that Moon does badly. For Karanas go the net and do the search. There is also the Yoga which is the Sun-Moon relationship and certain Yogas are also more auspicious than others. You can get this also from the net.

A weak+waning Moon (described above) is not good at all and the horoscope loses much power. Sun in cadent houses with no planets 2nd to it is one of the weakest positions.

Sun-Mon if in 6th-8th relationship and aspected by benefits according to what I read in Saptarishis is just like the Moon-Venus aspect relationship. Other than that Sun trine Moon is good as well. Sun and Moon in 2nd-12th relationship makes the Moon terribly weak even if the Moon is 2nd to Sun in which case it is waxing. Sun angular to Moon usually denotes a person who is of a high calibre of the warrior sort and not much suittable as a king in the modern sense. It also conduces to short life from what I read.

Shadbala is due to the strength of the individual planet attributes and the attributes of the inter-relationship between planets. It also has something to do with placement of planets in Digbala positions. It has nothing to do with placements in signs or signs in divisional charts. The net has full of information on Shabala like strengths of Graha based on the time of your birth, its motion speed at the time of your birth. And a host of other attributes like the aspects it receives more from malefics or benefics, Its Naigasikra (its inherent strength), whether it is in Digbala etc. Get this from Dirah website which explains well on Shadbala and work out the number of Shatiamsas which Jupiter gets in total ie. how it got that total which you claim it is low.

Rahu standing alone is usually no good as the person goes overboard in the affairs of the house it is in. On the other hand planets conjuncting Rahu gets weakened in the sense that the Dasa period of the planet has some vicissitudes but the planet's natural beneficience or natural maleficience and its karakatwas gets considerably enhanced. Rahu in the 10th is good just like Rahu in the 1st. Rahu's expansionary nature is best utilised in the house of the personality and the house of career and achievements taking into account the aforesaidmentioned attributes.

Usually AK and AmK going together in the Rasi chart constitutes a Raja Yoga. I have yet to hear people using this in a divisional chart ie. the temporal karakas. They are fixed at the Rasi level. JHora has it because sometimes it is easier to program if the logic is the same across all charts. But if you find out something about this, do let me know.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong
Last edited by Khoo Hock Leong on Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

Sunjit86
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:21 am

Re: Lagna, Lagna Lord, Moon. Atmakaraka and Navamsa Lagna

Post by Sunjit86 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:13 am

Thanks Khoo.

I will definitely get back to you on the Atmakaraka and Atmayakaraka.

Khoo Hock Leong
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 7128
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:17 pm

Re: Lagna, Lagna Lord, Moon. Atmakaraka and Navamsa Lagna

Post by Khoo Hock Leong » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:44 pm

Hi

Note that if the Lagna is stronger, than the person is more nature than nurture. If the Lagna Lord is stronger, the person is more nurture than nature. This has been discussed in the previous post under the Signatures of a Chart.

Moon is the personality of an individual so it is even more nurture than the Lagna Lord. Thus by taking VM from both Lagna and the Moon, it completes the overall picture we have of the individual in terms of his fate as discussed above in our analogy of the Sky God - fate he is born with and fate as determined by his choices in life he makes.

The Lagna Lord or Lagna is however important from the point of view of analysing a person's character in that it determines the basic mental make-up of the person and his constitution of the body. The dispositors of the Lagna Lord (both sign and Nakshatra) determines to a large extent these characteristics of a person or the dispositors of the Lagna as the case may be, depending on whether nature or nurture plays a predominant factor in the person's make-up.

Moon rules the personality which defines a higher order of the person including his complex desires, emotions, habits etc. - we normally do not go into that detail unless we have specific questions related to the Moon like emotional fulfillment. Yet Moon is still consulted if we want a further grounding of what are the friendly planets in a person's chart. Thus the dispositor of the sign or Nakshatra where the Moon is in, denotes those planets which would strengthen the person's personality in the direction of the natures of those dispositors. Like if Moon is disposited by Saturn, one can say the person can withstand the onslaught of Sadie Satie (hope I got the speilling right!) and he would not feel the bad effects of Saturn's transit.

In the case of a Cancer Ascendant, the Lagna Lord is the Moon and in my case it is also the Atmakaraka.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

vpn

Re: Lagna, Lagna Lord, Moon. Atmakaraka and Navamsa Lagna

Post by vpn » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:25 am

Hi there,

i'd really request you to analyse my chart as my lagna's very strong and lagna lord's placed in the 8th house, so i'd appreciate if you could explain this to me as i'm also learning astrology and i'd be more than grateful to all the information that you would be willing to pass on to me.

My details are: 6th feb, 79, 13.24, rajkot(india)

many thanks

vpn

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests