About Lahiri Ayanamsha

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ramesh123
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About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by ramesh123 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:06 pm

Hello,

I want to know how many people using Lahiri ayanamsha have experienced exact (or) near approximate dasha start/change timings # without # the requirement of any shifting dates before/after? I am not asking accuracy of Lahiri, but its timing correctness?

Position of planets is a completely different thing, but i want to know how many people feel that lahiri gives accurate dasha timings?

I am of opinion that lahiri gives dasha timing which are late by almost several months upto an year (vimshottari dasha)

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by revribhav » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:31 am

It is a broadly accurate system of calculation,
particularly for the practitioners of north india.

However,ayanamsha is a matter of personal preference.
Whichever method gives comparative accurate findings may be adopted.

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by cdvijay100 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:53 pm

Yes. Lahiri Ayanamsa gives the dasa timings very late. You may try BV Raman, KP, Lahiri New and based upon your practical experience in real time, choose the most accurate one as advised by revribhav. To my knowledge and experience, BV Raman's ayanamsa and KP gives a better accurate timings. This I am watching since 2013 November onwards and I find BV Raman's Aayanamsa gives most accurate timings.

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by rathore » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:52 am

Correct Ayanamsa is either Chitra Paksha or its Fagan, or very close to them.

Chitra Paksha has the advantage that it has been around since 250 BC or so. So it gains the time tested advantage.

Fagan has the advantage that it is siddhantically correct & has supposedly been tested with rainfall.

Ignore any Ayanamsas on the side of Raman. However if you test charts using loose subjective interpretation of planets, houses etc. combined with cherry picking rules (some real, many invented) to fit the event then just about any Ayanamsa will explain the events one way or the other. This is the prevalent style these days so avoid that.

Rathore

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by Lex » Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:05 am

cdvijay100 ji
I agree KP ayanamsa gives excellent results and PVR ji also commends BRaman's ayanamsa in high regards.
Ramesh123 I guess not around, else I would have written 15 posts on this thread on ayanamsa.

As Vedic astrology,in short I am saying, Lord Shiva bestowed on Lord Ganesha that whoever starts vedic mantras, Vedas, Vedic astrology is part of vedas,You i.e Lord Ganesha will be worshipped first.And therefore our sages allotted Ketu as 1st nk lord in Mesha, which is the first sign of normal zodiac. Ketu denotes Lord Ganesha.

For benefit of readers, Vedic astrology first month in a year starts from 15th April.That is, King of Planets Ravi transiting in Mesha and Ravi should be deposited in nk of Ketu. Any ayanamsa which doesnt fit in the above domain Ravi and Ketu needs to be relooked.

Lahiri ayanamsa is nothing but Chitra prakash ayanamsa. Why been used because Chitra means Chitira nakshatra of Kuja.Chitira nakshatra was then sighted as brightest star for calculating nirayana position through ayanamsa

..contd

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by Lex » Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:20 am

..contd

1. When we do daily religious and dharmic Pooja, do we not pick or pluck flowers fresh for God.
Regards
p.s In a non varga method, a member invited our friend, eventually I pitched in through Brighu Nadi. and K.P. method to demonstrate how effectively can be done
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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by cdvijay100 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:06 am

Dear Lex ji,

Thanks for the detailed post. I am reading astrology related articles and books since 1979 onwards. Most of the time I used to compare my horoscope (I used to call it horrorscope. Please see my other postings for my birth details). Your comment on why "Ketu denotes Ganesha" was an excellent explanation and really made me understand the very basic of astrology.

However just want to know what is your final conclusion? Lahiri or Raman or KP ? Your inputs will be useful to readers like me.

Thank you once again.

Vijay LN

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by Lex » Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:21 pm

Vijay ji

When Predictions are to be through sub sub modes, K.P ayanamsa is the best. Calculations are comparable to Drik siddhanta or almanac

Lahiri and Raman ayanamsas are best, when predictions are made through rasi navamsa

It is not ayanamsa important not only, but also a strong analytical, manual calculations of ayanamsa and intution are required

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by GNE » Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:00 am

I dont understand how "Lahiri / Raman" can be best. Must pick only one.
otherwise astrology now becomes useless.

because everything changes in navamsa in raman, jaimini karaka's also change for many people, including myself.
and so then anyone making predictions using such things....well, who's to say who's correct then?
I can get a reading from someone using Lahiri and if I don't like it, go to Raman where I'm almost a different person in that ayanamsa. or vice versa.

And I dont accept when people say "it's only the rasi that matters", (note: no one in this thread said it, I know. I'm just quoting from past "ayanamsa" discussions)
because well then why does 99% of everyone use navamsa, or atmakaraka anyway if thats the case.

Next, is anyone going into advanced techniques like sayaandi avastha, or Amsa bala, etc...
that too changes completely between ayanamsa.


I can understand maybe saying Lahiri or Fagan / Chandra Hari can be used...since they're not too far off (though I have the same complaints...just less so...)
but Raman is so far different from Lahiri, I can't see why both should exist.

It's like one group is saying 1+1 = 2
and another says 1+1 = 11


As you can probably tell the ayanamsa thing really gets me upset.
If Jytoish is a science, which I believe it to be, then it needs a solid answer. Not a "do what you want" ...okay, so to me 1+1 = 4. and it's correct because I just "Feel" that it is.
nope.

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by GNE » Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:08 am

I think one way to help "solve" the ayanamsa debate would be to truly know how to use the divisional charts.
Since it is them that change the most between ayanamsa.
I myself don't trust people using Dasha to select which ayanamsa is best, as I've seen, and can do myself - anyone can make any dasha "fit" anything. If MD doesn't fit, check AD, if not that check PD, if not that check MD/AD from chandra lagna, if not then check from dasha lagna, if not, then navamsa, or whatever divisional chart in question, then check from dasha lagna in that chart, etc... usually it doesn't need to go that far as one of the earlier steps made sense of an event.
I would only trust a truly professional "sage-like" astrologer to rectify based on dasha.

but if we knew exactly, say the difference between what exalted sun in navamsa 7th house. vs. taurus sun in navamsa 8th house meant, (an example of what changes in navamsa for a friend of mine), then that could help choose which ayanamsa is more fitting.

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by huien1 » Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:20 am

I agree with most of what you said GNE. Nadi is one method which doesn't rely on accurate birth timings or ayanamsa for general predictions otherwise it is up to us to decide which ayanamsa to use which is annoying for beginners. Most of the astrologers in south India use vaakya/surya siddhanta and they are still able to make good predictions :)

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by rathore » Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:14 am

Planets don't rule Nakshatras. Sure some planetary lordship has been assigned for some purposes but only Deities actually rule them.

Vimshottari Dasha calculation: Beginning from Kritika, the Lords of Dashas are Sun, Moon, Mars, Rahu, Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury, Ketu & Venus in that order. Thus, if the Nakshatras from Kritika to the Janma Nakshatra are divided by nine, the remainder will signify the Lord of the commencing Dasha. The remaining Dashas will be of the Planets in the order given above.

So there is nothing called as a Nakshatra Lord, there is only Dasha Lord. We don't run Dashas of Kritika, Uttarashada etc. We run dashas of planets. This concept of mixing Nakshatra Lords with Houses, House Lords etc. is another one juggled by the misguided & in the realms of explaining-away-anything.

Take special dasha Shodshottari. Here a Uttarashada native will be born in Moon's Dasha. So Uttarashada is ruled by Sun or Moon now? For Panchottari dasha, an Ashwini native will be born in the dasha of Venus (and not Ketu). So since there are no fixed nakshatra planetary lords hence one needs to be careful mixing puranical stories etc. (Lord Ganesha being the first worshipped deity) with real calculations such as Ayanamsa.



GNE ji, you are right there can only be one Ayanamsa & for sure it is not on the side of Raman, PP, SSS or using Topocentric (these are all close to each other). As you have figured out any Dasha can be made to fit anything, I have figured out this is the prevalent style since a long time now. So even when one's prediction comes right it is usually just the odds of life. If someone needs a job, he will usually get one within a few months. If one is of marriageable age, he will usually get married plus minus a couple of years. Similarly most people have children in the ideal time range. So when people ask their question, the chances of the Astrologer being right aligns well with the odds of life. Yet so many predictions go wrong. But when they are right, it must be their Ayanamsa :mrgreen:

Rathore
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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by GNE » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:31 am

Indeed, I noticed dasha being made to fit anything as I have a couple friends that pretty much get monthly astrology readings from professionals, and let me hear their readings MP3's. Even one that changed his birthtime between readings (just enough to tweak his navamsa, rasi was the same, but dasha changed) he had astrologers explain his life events using different dasha's....one explained his moving into a new home using Mercury-Sun where it was thanks to Sun, and another explained it using Mercury-Ketu, and blamed ketu's placement.
There are of course many other examples, but you get the idea.

This set of red flags for me, and after also reading what you Rathore have said in other forum posts, I came to that conclusion that selecting ayanamsa based on dasha will be futile.

I have also thought, like when it comes to celebrity horoscopes, those with AA ratings....when people say "I think the time is actually still off a few minutes, because the Antardasha lord fits better...etc.." my question to them is, perhaps it's your ayanamsa thats incorrect. Not the birthtime.
Before changing the birth time, how about test with a different ayanamsa, like fagan or chandra hari and see if dasha fits better to you then.


But in the end, there needs to be one ayanamsa. It's impossible for more than one to be "correct" (when getting into divisional charts mostly). Otherwise we're basically saying " 1 + 1 = both 2 and 3. depends on which number you like better"

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by Lex » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:21 am

cdvijay ji
We will see Drik Ayanamsa Vimshottari dashas in K.P etc subsequently, if time permis me to write.
Vedic astrology derived from Puranas only.
An astrologer saying not to quote Puranas, than vedic astrology becomes void.
We know Dhanwantri i.e Medicine and Astrology are angas or part of Vedas.
Vedas originated from Puranas.
Who is Custodian of Dhanwantri Astrology
Ravi
Who is Ravi
Lord Shiva
Lord Shiva. .Three eyes..Third eye..Agni
Lord Shiva is Universe
What does Lord Krishna say in Shiv sasranam to Bheeshma and Pandavas
As above
Sun or Ravi is King
..next

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by Lex » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:41 am

..contd
In Ramayan, Sage Valmiki says Vishwamitra Rishi requests Lord Ram to get up and arise by looking at the stars in the horizon.Lord Ram and Lakshman accompanied Rishi to forest for slaying demons. Rishi tells Lord Ram that Chitra paksh, that star was bright and visible (180 degrees opposite to Sun rise)
Rishi predicted Ritu i.e season and Ravi exact position in.Ashwini nk
Vishwamitra Rishi once threatened to make a seperate nakshatra mandala with another Indra.Mandala means a Zodiac arc of 360 degrees

So our Rishis gave importances to nakshatras and not the planets.
Ravi gets exalted in Ashwini nakshatra and lorded or owned by Ketu
As I said earlier too, Ravi in the month of April 13th or 14th every year, transits in Mesha in constellation of Ketu or Ashwini exactly zero degree.Our Hindu year begins every year begins at Mesha Ravi..i.e Ravi in Ketu's const
If Sun Rise is at 6 am on 13th or 14th Apr every year, than Ravi in Ketu's nk and Ketu's sub at any place.

..next

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by Lex » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:55 am

..contd
Lord Ganesh and Ketu
Godess Parvati with her Shakti made an Idol with Turmeric powder paste
She made that Idol and gave responsibility not to allow anyone inside to meet her.
Idol was like dwarapalaka for Godess
Lord Shiva wanted to meet Godess, Idol didnt heed to pressures of Lord Shiva's armies
In the end, Lord Shiva severed head of Idol.
Godess Parvati came to know about it and with her Shakti threatened Lord Shiva that Seven worlds would be destroyed.
Lord Shiva ordered Lord Vishnu to come out with a head of a person, who is sleeping North side.
Lord Vishnu got a head of an elephant who was only sleeping North


Ketu....Denotes Head also Surgery etc
..Next

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by Lex » Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:25 pm

cd vijay ji
Why I am writing this big posts,
..a comment on Puranas, indirectly saying vedas and our astrology no link
..a comment on nakshatra lord, vimshottari dasha
...

..We will see Ganesha, Drik etc
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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by Lex » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:11 pm

..contd
Lord Shiva known as Vaidyanath
In sanskrit..Vaidya means Medicine
Lord Shiva..Medicine owner..Medicine specialist..Dhanwantri..Doctor
Lord Shiva transplants Elephant head on that body of turmeric paste
Godess Parvati with her Shakti blesses Elephant Head God and requests Lord Shiva to bless their boy God with auspious things.Lord Shiva names Him Lord Ganesh..means adipati of Ganas
Sage Narada sang
Vakradunta.......Suryakoti sama...
Nirvig......sarvakarya...

Means..To Lord Ganesha...Your face is like Koti.crores of Sun shining.....All auspious things in Vedas Mantras etc first bowing or prayers or salutions goes to Lord Ganesha. Universe Father..Lord Shiva. Universe Mother..Godess Parvati...Maternal Uncle...Lord Vishnu also blessed Lord Ganesga same way.

In any Puja ceremony,one will see first prayer goes to lord Ganesha

Now our Ritu or Season starts i.e Hindu..Vedic..Almanac..Panchang..New year begins from April 13th or 14th every year

..contd

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by Lex » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:39 pm

..contd
During April 13th or 14th every year,.Ravi in Mesha
So our sages. .month as Mesha Ravi
In Mesha..three stars are there
Zodiac is for mathematical calculation
27 nks in one Mandala i.e 360 degree, 1 deg is 60 mins
Lord Shiva is owner of Vedas, all four Vedas
Lord Hanuman, as Lord Shiva, learnt all four Vedas from Sun in a matter of a mandala time
Sun..Lord Shiva
Lord Shiva allotted first nakshara Ashwini..adipati is Ashwini kumar, Sons of Surya but Humans or sages has to worship Lord Ganesha. The nk.lord is Ketu, second Goes to Bharani..Guru has to be worshipped, Shukracharya great devotee of Lord Shiva and 3rd half goes to nklord Ravi

Sage Parashara order of V.D first goes to Ketu

Ketu. Deity God is Lord Ganesha
Sages always worshipped deity God..Lord Ganesha, Shiva Vishnu Durga mataji etc
For e.g Ashwini nk adipati Ashwini kumar..star L..Ketu..Deity God..Lord Ganesha
..e.g Jyesta nk adipati Indra..nk L. Budha..Deity..Lord Vishnu

Sages blessings and Father's mother's blessings should always happeb
Ravi Exalts in Ashwini in the mnth of April every year
Ravi..Lord Shiva
Exalts..Powerful
Ashwini..Ketu nk lord
Ketu..Lord Ganesha Deity God
April mnth..0 deg on 13th or 14th Apr in Mesha
Mesha..First Sign
0 deg to 13 deg 20 mins..First nk
First nk..Ashwini
First star L..Ketu
Ketu..Lord Ganesha
Ravi at 0 deg..Ashwini..Ketu..Lord Ganesha

Sage Narada sang..Surya koti sama...

..contd

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by Lex » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:42 pm

..contd
so Ravi getting exalted in Ashwini nk, nk Lord Ketu, every year in mid Apr is the blessings of Univeese Father, Lord Shiva.He Himself as Ravi gets exalted in Ashwini nk, deity God Lord Ganesha
Any vedic karmas i.e mantra chanting or Astrology even Ravi has to do a bow to Lord Ganesha. Even Lord Vishnu bowed before Lord Ganesha.
Lord Ganesha selected by Veda Vyasar for Him to write Mahabaratha as sage dictates. Baby God, Lord Ganesha is known for sharp memory recall,as Elephant have Elephantine memory.
Thats why Budha and Ketu conjoining gives a native strong memory and good intelligence.

Ketu, deity God Lord Ganesha, also known for Putra or putri giver, as Narada sage, sang a native when prays you sure to get intelligence, aishwaryam,keerti and Progeny blessing and moksha giver

Ketu lords nks of Ashwini in Mesha, magha in Simha and Moola
Mesha..Sun exalts
Magha..Sun's own house
Moola..Guru's house..9th house

All above houses are Dharma houses
Ketu..Head, Medicine karaka in Mesha i.e Ashwinin nk
Ketu..Simha..5th H..intelligence putra bhava
Ketu.Dhanur..9th H..wisdom, putra bhava

..so if software not tallying Ravi in zero Deg on Apr 13 or 14th..Reject the software.

..contd

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by Lex » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:05 pm

..contd
Now Drik and Vakya calculations..a member in this thread wrote on siddhanta, That member queried me on Nadi in a thread which member poked nose into it without contributing to that queriest in Marriage section.
This member is a student just learning, first should understand what is vakya and drik.

An almanac or a panchang to a astrologer is like water to a fish.
Drik means to see and vakya every one will know the meaning.
We, i.e. Hindus who deals with astrology as Vedas, science comes secondary. Can anyone tell why water is colorless or water flows from higher to lower, why it cant be reverse

As someone said 1+1 equals 111111
the same can that be explained reversely

The above phenomenon is or are creations of Almighty.

We fix dates of festivals,ancestor ceremony etc only by astrologically.We do not look into June has so many days, Oct has so many days etc, we follow astrological behavior or pattern like nakshatras, thitis.
We also know Diwali comes in this mnth on this tithi etc so wrong dates selected will not satisfy astrological requirements.
In uttara kalamitra, Kalidasa says, exact positions of grahas to be calculated by Drik method.
Manreeshwara goes on by adding
Ghatir Drik Thulayavatam Ganita Karanithi
Calculations based on observations of grahas only to be uses.
Our sages said
Drik Karnakya viheenah kheta stoolatah karmanah arah
Position of grahas found out by calculations inconsist with observational precession will be apprx and not for religious ceremonies..
..next

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by Lex » Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:16 am

..contd
vakya almanac based calculations came into existence as suggested by Aryabhata, since surya siddhanta was available. It was lengthy and other astronomers discovered vakya process for panchang, ready references of longis for small cycles and longer cycles calculated and with this it was shown planets positions including Chandra can be ascertained. Therefore tithis etc can be calculated. This is against our sages recommendations.
Certain comnunity breaks the fast only after sighting Chandra and not by readymade style..vakya

It is ignorant on part of vakya almanac to utilize sages recommendations and also have to look into details such as zodiac also retrogrades by 50th. ....apprx seconds every year.Therefore ready made calculations of vakya doesnt satisfy.

If,say pitru annual ritual ceremony to be done, it is wiser to follow Drik calculations for ancestor's tithi, varsha etc

Mirituham samarikarma chandala koti janmasu
A native who misses the day of departed soul's anniversary is sure to be penalised by repeat birth crores of times.

..Next

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by Lex » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:41 pm

contd
V.D. or Vimshottari dasa
We take the exact position of Chandra at the time of birth, find out where and which nakshatra placed, nakshatra lord, number of solar yrs allotted to that Lord, position or the nk gone through prior birth, and the balance of nk that is to happen, so calculation of balance of period that is run from time of birth and the next order of the dasa is to be followed.
These periods of grahas called as Dasas. There are many dasas are available, Vimshottari dasas..span of 120 yrs, includes order wise and predetermined years of Week planets and Chaya grahas.

Astrologer have a belief that the first order starts from Sun, as week commences from King i.e Ravi..i.e order allotted by sage.
But sage had allotted Ketu first, Shukra second, Ravi Third......
till Budha in the last order listing for Dasha
But, Say Ketu dasa runs for 7yrs orShukra dasa for 20yrs...Budha for 17 yrs calculation, no sanskrit sutras available why Ketu has 7 yrs and why not 17 yrs or reverse for Budha

..Next..Why Ketu gets no1 order slot for Dasha

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by Lex » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:16 am

..contd
Why Ketu gets number 1 slot for Dasha calculations
Ashwini nakshatra is the first nakshatra in the first sign of normal zodiac
Ashwini is into 4 padas, which I am touching, as it is beyond the scope in Dasha order sequences of nk Lord
Ashwini..13 deg 20 mins in Mesha, i.e first constellation of 800 mins in normal zodiac is ruled by Star Lord of Ashwini, Ketu
Ketu..deity God is Lord Ganesha
Ketu is 1st star Lord of Dharma sign i.e Mesha
Lord Ganesha is first son of Universe God, Lord Shiva
Please read my earlier posts, Lord Ganesha is to be prayed first than comes rest of God praying
Sages has blessed these norm
Hence, first slot number one goes to Ketu.Deity Gid..Lord Ganesha

so in Mesha Ashwini..Ketu
Bharani..Shukra
Krittika..Ravi

in Taurus part of Kritrika
Rohini..Chandra
Mrigasirisam..Kuja

in Gemini..part of Mrigasirsam
Arudra..Rahu
Punarvasu..Guru

In Cancer..Part of Punarvasu
Pushya..Shani
Ashlesha..Budha

Here it completes one Arc

Next Arc
Dharma sign..Leo
Magham..Ketu
Purvaphalguni.Shukra
Uttaraphalguni..Ravi part

.
.
.

above order repeated till Scorpio

Dhanur..Dharma sign
Moolam begins..star L..Ketu
.
.
.

order repeats above till
Meena
Revati..star L..Budha

Therefore a native born in Revati
First dasa..Budha
Next..Ketu
etc

A native born Ashwini nk
First dasa..Ketu
Next..Shukra

etc
..next.Ayanamsa

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Re: About Lahiri Ayanamsha

Post by Lex » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:47 am

..contd
Ayanamsa
The longitudinal diffence between a sayana and a nirayana is Ayanamsa.
Readers may please refer my write up in Planets section..9th cusp sub. .K.P.....Astrologer, I had done analysis of great astrologer Raphael was born in 18th century.

It is important to use correct Ayanamsa.If someone using position of planets and doing analysis it will be disaster like analysing a sayana chart.

Before going into Ayanamsa, lets see date of coincident of sayana and nirayana state.
Many astromers gave their date including FAGAN &BRADLEY
Lahiri...285A.D
Sephaerial..498 A.D
Davidson..317 B.C
Thierens..125 B.C
FAGAN...213 A.D
P.S.Ray.. 319 A.D
Krishnamoorty..291.A.D

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