Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

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GNE
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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by GNE » Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:50 am

True Marian, (regarding guru/sadhu opinion...)

Of course because you follow Sanjay Rath, that is great reason to follow his teaching, but as goes for anyone's guru - just because they say something doesn't make it 100%, until tested over many many charts and working probably 80% or more, ideally.
I am not saying Sanjay is wrong of course, I have no right even to say that. Like every opinion on retrograde planets in this thread, it all is just a "it might be this way..." to me.

The points you bring up about mercury/venus/saturn being friendly to one another and thus not harming much is accurate though, I must agree. As it is also mentioned in shastras / classic texts. And a very good point I was overlooking....the fact that in bachchan (and my chart) case the planets are with best friends, further in my case mercury/venus have no other aspect of any malefic, using both Rashi or Graha aspect. And the Saturn in trine, thank you for mentioning. I have a book on Nadi but have not really read it in detail yet, however I do recall them mentioning planets in trine if are friends, sort of acts like a conjunction/aspect type of yoga together.

Anyway,
Back to the retrograde debilitated = exalted, and vice versa...
I think it would help if we could find other charts with a more simple "lone retrograde exalted planet" (not conjunct), to judge results, especially if the person was through the mahadasha of such planet.

I think Elizabeth Taylor is a great case study... Retrograde exalted Jupiter alone in the 9th.
And it was near the start of Jupiter Mahadasha (Jup-Sat) she rose to fame and achieved stardom. There is an article(paid article..) from this site on actors and the 3rd house that talks about her rise and success during jupiter dasha

Thank you for all your replies so far.
Last edited by GNE on Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by GNE » Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:50 am

Question just came to me, Marian,

Do you know if Sanjay Rath considers the concept of retrograde acting like the sign across from it in varga charts too?
Ex: Saturn in Leo navamsa (or any varga) retrograde, so it's acting like being in Aquarius, and thus is really great. ?

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Jan » Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:17 am

Interesting thoughts from contributors here.....

I have looked at Kurt Cobains chart and meditated on it a bit....

--- His chart have venus exalted as 10th lord and 3rd lord with Saturn forming a raja yoga in 8th house
( fame associated with death.)
In musical and artists chart 3rd and 5th house is key factors, as is also planet venus. So venus role in his musical
success is clear. Venus is also in 10th house from Moon, forming a Malavya yoga.
And his creatively masterpiece which changed the history of rock to some extent, was produced in his Saturn-Venus period.
Venus in Jupiters nakshatra gives some results as Jupiter 5th lord exalted.

Now Jupiter as 5th lord is the interesting here as Jupiter is Retrograde and exalted, placed in 12th house.
As the exalted 5th house ruler performance and creativity is mirrored find for such a musical talent.
12th house is good for creativity too as a house of unboundedness corresponding to pisces. But other areas of 5th house is suffering. Unfinished education, mental problems are such questionmarks for the exaltation of the 5th house ruler.
As 8th lord Jupiter is also about longevity. So the Retrogression phenomena could perhaps indicate education which decreased over time. His creativity did also stop to some extent during later time due to drug abuse.
The 12th house factor of Jupiters role is indicating some losses.

In Navamsha Jupiter is vargottama in parivartana with Moon in 5th house pisces/ Jupiter cancer 9th, which could strenghtening the argument for Jupiter as instrumental in being creative strong ?

Interesting with the different wiews regarding this subject....
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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by marian i. » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:43 am

Hi,

Jan,
Kurt Cobain had his great period in Saturn- Venus. Venus is the 10th lord exalted- fame as an entertainer. Saturn with Venus shows his downfall, also. That success was like a big rock hanging on his weak mind and great sensibility. It was to much for him, he was an anti- rock star, and for the same reason, he was so great (in his field). Saturn with Venus (in Pisces) makes one very wealthy- he was in that period. Saturn is so bad for a Leo Lagna, as the 6th/ 7th lord, and also Venus is in Jupiter Nakshatra. Jupiter is the 5th house- stomach, and is very weak (what we discuss here) in 8th from 5th house in 12th house - self undoing house, exalted but retrograde. He suffered greatly from some digestive/ stomachial disease which became very painful in that period prior to his death.
[The education (primary school) is shown by the 4th house. Mars is the lord of 4th placed in 12th from 4th in Satru Rasi- he gave up school. Ketu in 3rd afflicts the agility of hands, but with Yogakaraka Mars shows a great guitarist also (Venus the 3rd lord is exalted). AL is in Taurus- entertainer/ voice, with Venus exalted in 11th from AL aspected by Moon- singer/ vocalist/ poet etc. Exaltation of Venus shows very big gains. Sun aspects the 3rd house from AL & Lagna- death by fire/ bullet. Sun is Lagna Lord with Mercury, AK planet, thus suicide. Jupiter in 3rd from AL shows death in a room being conscious/ aware that he is going to die (suicide). Saturn with the Lord of 6th from AL shows a drug addict. Etc.]

GNE,
Yes, this rule is applicable also in all divisional charts.

P.S. The primary education is shown by the 4th house. The MahaPurusha Yogas are formed only from Lagna, not from Moon. Both these points are from classics.


Regards,
M

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Helius » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:52 am

I have three queries, [DOB: Male 01 Oct 1982, 14:15 IST (hospital time), Chennai (13.1°N 80.233°E) India.]

1: The given chart too has Mercury both exalted, retrogate and also seems combust due to close proximity to sun. Please let me how he reacts under these circumstance as i currently have Mer MD and Ve AD.

2: VE is Debilitated and seems to achieve neechabhanga due to depositor ME exaltation but as per the topic does this still apply as ME is in retro too?

3: Moon alone with no planets around seems Kemadruma but JU in 10th from Lagna is aspecting Moon, also JU in Kendra from lagna and MA in Kendra to Moon seems to cancel the this yoga. Can you please enlighten me on the same?

Thanks.

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by marian i. » Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:16 am

Hi,

Helius, it appears to me that your t.o.b. is 14:17:25, but this only in the case of a slight error in the time given by the hospital (I mean that this is not a rectification, I was just looking at some clear rules like Kunda, PP etc.). The time 14:15 is wrong for sure.

1. Mercury is not combust, as per my knowledge. You are now in Mercury Dasa, but he is with another 3 planets, thus he will give the results of one of these planets, not his own result. Mercury with 2 natural malefic planets is also malefic. Thus, the order is (from the most malefic to the most benefic): Saturn, Sun, Mercury and Venus. Saturn will give in his Dasa the results of Venus, and Sun will give in his Dasa the effects of Mercury. So, you are now in Sun Dasa;

2. Necchabhanga of Venus is given by the placement of Jupiter in the kendra from Moon and by the conjunction with Mercury, even if Mercury is exalted and retrograde. But, because Mercury, Venus and Saturn are togheter, all 3 are powerful (this is from Nadis). Also, Venus, Mercury, Saturn and Sun togheter is a Raja Yoga for wealth in Nadi astrology. (Moreover, Jupiter is in a kendra from Lagna and gives Necchabhanga to Mercury). But still, due to the retrogradation of Mercury, he is not as strong as in his exaltation Rasi, due to his retrograde motion. A planet with Necchabhanga is not as powerful as one in exaltation;

3. You do not have Kemadruma Yoga, because you have at least one planet in a kendra from Lagna (Jupiter). Kemadruma Yoga is a rare Yoga. But, some authorities gives Kemadruma Yoga even if the kendras from Moon are occupied only by malefic planets, and you have this combination. I do not agree with that view, and you can see a case of non Kemadruma Yoga even in the chart of Donald Trump. Thus, you do not have this Yoga.
[Also, Ruchaka Yoga is formed only from Lagna, not from Moon. Thus, you do not have this Yoga.]


Regards,
M

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Helius » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:06 am

marian i. wrote:Hi,

Helius, it appears to me that your t.o.b. is 14:17:25, but this only in the case of a slight error in the time given by the hospital (I mean that this is not a rectification, I was just looking at some clear rules like Kunda, PP etc.). The time 14:15 is wrong for sure.
Thanks so much for your reply. I always thought the time to be 14:12:10 as several people said it changes D9 lagna from Aries to Pisces and as a proof they said this could be the reason for the delay in marriage. But the time you specified adds more interest as instead of going backwards it goes forward. Hope the mystery in my birth time is revealed in future.

If time permits can you please let me know pros and cons between 14:12 - 14:15 and 14:17:25 and how do they impact my life?
marian i. wrote:1. Mercury is not combust, as per my knowledge. You are now in Mercury Dasa, but he is with another 3 planets, thus he will give the results of one of these planets, not his own result. Mercury with 2 natural malefic planets is also malefic. Thus, the order is (from the most malefic to the most benefic): Saturn, Sun, Mercury and Venus. Saturn will give in his Dasa the results of Venus, and Sun will give in his Dasa the effects of Mercury. So, you are now in Sun Dasa;
Thanks for your analysis. Will Sun dasa be good for me?
I always thought ME MD + VE AD should give marriage but since you say its Sun MD + VE AD will my marriage be further delayed?
Several astrologers have said that only post marriage my success in business and luck in finance would improve as moon is in 2nd house (thought my spouse would be from business background who can both advice and educate me on the same - may be since SU is my 8th lord i dont take bold decisions when it comes to both personal and business decisions), so do i have to wait for a longer time for catching my luck?
marian i. wrote:2. Necchabhanga of Venus is given by the placement of Jupiter in the kendra from Moon and by the conjunction with Mercury, even if Mercury is exalted and retrograde. But, because Mercury, Venus and Saturn are togheter, all 3 are powerful (this is from Nadis). Also, Venus, Mercury, Saturn and Sun togheter is a Raja Yoga for wealth in Nadi astrology. (Moreover, Jupiter is in a kendra from Lagna and gives Necchabhanga to Mercury). But still, due to the retrogradation of Mercury, he is not as strong as in his exaltation Rasi, due to his retrograde motion. A planet with Necchabhanga is not as powerful as one in exaltation;
Thanks, when will the rajayoga for wealth work?
Instead of moving away from exaltation point ME seems to return (retro) towards his deep exaltation point, does this mean something?
So both VE & ME are getting neechabhanga? Is this ok as they both seem crucial for the chart?
marian i. wrote:3. You do not have Kemadruma Yoga, because you have at least one planet in a kendra from Lagna (Jupiter). Kemadruma Yoga is a rare Yoga. But, some authorities gives Kemadruma Yoga even if the kendras from Moon are occupied only by malefic planets, and you have this combination. I do not agree with that view, and you can see a case of non Kemadruma Yoga even in the chart of Donald Trump. Thus, you do not have this Yoga.
[Also, Ruchaka Yoga is formed only from Lagna, not from Moon. Thus, you do not have this Yoga.]

Regards,
M
Thanks for clarifying, good to know that there is no Kemadruma Yoga as i have always felt lonely (though i have all necessary relatives) and marriage is also getting delayed (first i refused almost 6 proposals while abroad since i was yet to settle financially and also have an elder unmarried sister who has to first get married and then i can plan). Glad to have something common with Donald Trump as he is a great business man and i also want to be great in business someday. :)

Thanks onceagain for your detailed reply.

Best regards,
Helius

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by marian i. » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:41 am

Hi,

Dear Helius, why don't you open a thread for you, in the free rectifications section? I promise that I will make the rectification for you. I can say this or that now, but if the time is wrong, how to be sure of something in your chart? For Pisces Lagna in Navamsa 7th is occupied by Saturn, and this placement shows early marriage, normally, not delayed one. Only in the case of retrograde Saturn it will be delay. Saturn in 7th is in his Dig Bala house. This is just a small observation.
Thus, you have some thread or not?


Regards,
M

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Helius » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:33 am

marian i. wrote:Hi,

Dear Helius, why don't you open a thread for you, in the free rectifications section? I promise that I will make the rectification for you. I can say this or that now, but if the time is wrong, how to be sure of something in your chart? For Pisces Lagna in Navamsa 7th is occupied by Saturn, and this placement shows early marriage, normally, not delayed one. Only in the case of retrograde Saturn it will be delay. Saturn in 7th is in his Dig Bala house. This is just a small observation.
Thus, you have some thread or not?


Regards,
M
Yes, i have just created one - viewtopic.php?f=12&t=33699

best regards,
Helius

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Krishna » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:02 pm

Hi,

FYI, here's a 1 hour lecture by Mr. Vaughn Paul Manley on Exalted Retrograde Planets/Dasha Pravesh in Vedic Astrology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcBOPNlD9fA

...
Krishna

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by astrolearner15 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:02 am

Thank you for the link, Krishnaji. I watched that video when it was first put on Youtube, but since it goes over a number of topics, it doesn't explore this combination with multiple charts.

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Jan » Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:40 pm

Interesting video with Paul Manley. It would be nice to look at that research of this subject.



One of the greatest Saints in modern India Shri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa have his exalted retrograde Saturn in 9th house of religion.
It was in the Saturn dasha that he had his most spiritual experiences.
https://books.google.se/books?id=jBzSLN ... se&f=false

That 9th house is extraordinary with Saturn exalted in 9th house and 9L venus exalted in
pisces.
It clearly shows to me that his Saturn is acting as exalted imo.



One other of Indias great Saints; Anandamayi Ma have a Saturn exalted Retrograde.
This Saturn is 12th lord of transcendance placed in 8th house.
She was famous for being in exalted spiritual states on a constant basis.

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Jan » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:59 am

.


Looking at the archetypical chart given for the Avatar of Vishnu Rama;

http://www.planetarypositions.com/astro ... d-krishna/

Probably symbolic chart, yes ....
Seeing there a row of Exalted planets which are fitting symbolically for an Incarnation of
The universal consciousness on earth.



Below are the chart of Another Avatar coming in this modern age Ramakrishna.
He have mars as atmakaraka exalted in the 12th house of moksha universal consciousness.
Venus is exalted in pisces. Saturn is exalted but Rx in Libra. The spiritual combination of
12th ruler Saturn is exalted in the 9th house.



To the right of his chart is the chart of Ammachi said to be an incarnation living on earth this
day. She have also a row of exalted planets. Just like Ramakrishna she have her Atmakaraka in
the 12th house of universal consciousness showing her status as an incarnation.
Mercury exalted. Moon exalted. Sun exalted in Navamsha. Saturn exalted in Libra, just like Ramakrishna
and Rama.
Saturn in it's highest aspect is the renunciant. Saturn is commitment to the spritual path.


And Ananadamayi Ma have her Saturn exalted in Libra as well.....


But as the rule of exalted retrograde planets acting like debilitated indicates that Ramakrishna should have his
Saturn acting like debilitated. Showing it hard to commit to religious practices and meditation (Saturn as ruler of 12th
in 9th house) ???
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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Helius » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:15 am

Krishna wrote:Hi,

FYI, here's a 1 hour lecture by Mr. Vaughn Paul Manley on Exalted Retrograde Planets/Dasha Pravesh in Vedic Astrology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcBOPNlD9fA

...
Krishna
Plz watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLvjh7dFHbE at timeline of 09-40 says MER combust and Retro makes a person wise. Seems my spouse would be more intelligent. :D

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Helius » Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:10 am

marian i. wrote:Hi,

Dear Helius, why don't you open a thread for you, in the free rectifications section? I promise that I will make the rectification for you. I can say this or that now, but if the time is wrong, how to be sure of something in your chart? For Pisces Lagna in Navamsa 7th is occupied by Saturn, and this placement shows early marriage, normally, not delayed one. Only in the case of retrograde Saturn it will be delay. Saturn in 7th is in his Dig Bala house. This is just a small observation.
Thus, you have some thread or not?


Regards,
M
Marian, an astrologer said with reference to "Pranapada Lagna" said the TOB 14:15 is correct so no need to worry. Hope what he said was correct. :)

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Jan » Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:46 pm

marian i. wrote:Hi,

Jan,
Kurt Cobain had his great period in Saturn- Venus. Venus is the 10th lord exalted- fame as an entertainer. Saturn with Venus shows his downfall, also. That success was like a big rock hanging on his weak mind and great sensibility. It was to much for him, he was an anti- rock star, and for the same reason, he was so great (in his field). Saturn with Venus (in Pisces) makes one very wealthy- he was in that period. Saturn is so bad for a Leo Lagna, as the 6th/ 7th lord, and also Venus is in Jupiter Nakshatra. Jupiter is the 5th house- stomach, and is very weak (what we discuss here) in 8th from 5th house in 12th house - self undoing house, exalted but retrograde. He suffered greatly from some digestive/ stomachial disease which became very painful in that period prior to his death.
[The education (primary school) is shown by the 4th house. Mars is the lord of 4th placed in 12th from 4th in Satru Rasi- he gave up school. Ketu in 3rd afflicts the agility of hands, but with Yogakaraka Mars shows a great guitarist also (Venus the 3rd lord is exalted). AL is in Taurus- entertainer/ voice, with Venus exalted in 11th from AL aspected by Moon- singer/ vocalist/ poet etc. Exaltation of Venus shows very big gains. Sun aspects the 3rd house from AL & Lagna- death by fire/ bullet. Sun is Lagna Lord with Mercury, AK planet, thus suicide. Jupiter in 3rd from AL shows death in a room being conscious/ aware that he is going to die (suicide). Saturn with the Lord of 6th from AL shows a drug addict. Etc.]

GNE,
Yes, this rule is applicable also in all divisional charts.

P.S. The primary education is shown by the 4th house. The MahaPurusha Yogas are formed only from Lagna, not from Moon. Both these points are from classics.


Regards,
M
Thanks for comments Marion.
Some little comments about it.

1. Some very learned astrologers use Mahapurusha yogas from the Moon including BV Raman and Kn Rao.
The rules from the classics may not always be adhered to as a gospel (hope you don't mind me saying that). Kurt Cobain's venus malavya yoga from the
moon is imo an important factor to his artistic success. An exalted venus in 8th house conjunct Saturn is perhaps
not manifesting that strong otherwise. In this thread Denzel Washington have both a sasha yoga and a malavya yoga
from the Moon which are important imo.

2.
I been learned that there are many houses for education. 4th house is sure indicating school environment and is important. 9th house is important for higher education. Yes I agree so far. But here again astrologers of prominence using the 5th house as Another house for education. The 5th house is the house of the intelligence and the mind, thus
important in the education process, and mirrored in those questions. It is said to be important also in the programme of
study.
Malefics here can indicate technical education et.c. In my own sons chart he embarked on a computer oriented education with focus on design and IT. He is in a venus mahadasha. Venus is placed with 5th lord mars and conjunct Rahu,modern Technologies. He started it in Venus-Mars dasha. Venus is 5th lord and Mars is aspecting 5th house in Siddhamsha, thus indicating important time for education. Completes the education now in venus-Rahu. Rahu is disposes Jupiter in 9th house in siddhamsha.
Kurt Cobains chart he was struggling with his study subjects in his Saturn-Saturn period, which was aspecting his 5th house.
Dropping out of school then...transiting Saturn with ketu in 4th house (primary education, school environment).

P.S.
I feel that Cobains chart may be rectified backwards a couple of minutes. This would put Saturn in the 8th house of the
D-24 Siddhamsha divisional chart for education, signifying changes or obstacles in education, which undoubtedly was true in his Saturn-Saturn period, dropping out of school.

Regards,

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Jan » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:28 am

Just watched the Movie about Edward Snowden directed by Oliver Stone.
Felt inspired to have a look into his chart and found his 10th lord Saturn actually
exalted in Libra Retrograde. This might be an inspiring case study for anyone
interested. A brilliant career which backtracked when he left the game....as
everybody knows.
Is this a case which shows what my teacher said that sometimes an exalted Retrograde
planet gives excellent results initially, but later backtracks a bit...?

And all that in the Saturnus dasha running !


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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by marian i. » Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:01 am

Hi,

We are discussing here about this issue of retrograde/exalted planets etc., and many texts gives different rules about it, but in the case of MahaPurushas Yogas or the house of education (4th house) the texts are clear in giving the formation of those yogas only from Lagna, not Moon and also, that the 4th house is the house of education. See the new thread on Argala (related also to the houses of educations). Thus, because we must learn the astrology by consulting the 3 sources, Guru, Sadhu and Shastras, we must ask the Gurus/ Sadhus about unclear rules, as that of this topic, but not about some new rules which are not found in any book of classics (as my knowledge goes). Thus, if someone gives a new rule not found in any book (shastra) this is deviation from the rules given by sages as Narada Muni/ Sanatkumara etc (see the Narada Purana). Those teachings are important and are working, not those gives by such and such new author.
In "Saravali" it is given the results for placement of Saturn- Venus in 10th from Moon to give an artist etc. In the case of K. Cobain exalted Venus shows a great and succesful artist. Also, a MahaPurusha Yoga gives at least medium life, not short life (afflicted gives medium life). Moon in 2nd from AL makes one rich. Lagna Lord is with the 2nd and 11th lords- this gives a Dhana Yoga (Lagna Lord is kendra and trikona lord). In 7th house gives Srimanta Yoga (rich) as Lagna Lord (Jaimini).

Another sloka for the subject of this thread:
" When a planet occupies his exaltation Bhava, but it is retrograde in his motion, he gets only his NecchaBala: he is without any strenght. Should a planet be retrograde while in his debilitation Bhava, his strenght is akin to that when in his exaltation"-from "Uttara Kalamitra" of Kalidas.

Regards,
M

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Black Cat » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:00 am

[I][quote="Jan"]Just watched the Movie about Edward Snowden directed by Oliver Stone.
Felt inspired to have a look into his chart and found his 10th lord Saturn actually
exalted in Libra Retrograde. This might be an inspiring case study for anyone
interested. A brilliant career which backtracked when he left the game....as
everybody knows.
Is this a case which shows what my teacher said that sometimes an exalted Retrograde
planet gives excellent results initially, but later backtracks a bit...?

And all that in the Saturnus dasha running ![/quote][/I]

This might be the most valuable post in this thread because we all know who Snowden is and his huge contributions in a very controversial manner. See, controversies, conspiracies, and chaos? Defines retrogression.

No, not all retrograde planets act opposite of their nature (whether exalted or debilitated). It's all a hoax. The travesty is that not many have researched on the behavior of retrograde planets. Whether benefics act as malefics, or vice-versa, whether Jupiter (R) in Capricorn becomes exalted, or acts like one, not many Jyotishis have researched on it. Most just harp around quoting some classic.

The way I see it, as a layman, retrogression is a planet acting differently from the norm - as it is defying the odds or the norms. It doesn't mean that Saturn (R) in Libra becomes debilitated. Yet, it means that the planet is erratic and acts unconventionally. How exactly? I can't pinpoint because it's still a vague topic in Jyotisha.

I'll give you an example though: Osho had Jupiter (R) in Cancer. Tell me where - in this enlightened person's life - did it act debilitated? What it did do is give a different dimension to spirituality. Osho mostly spoke of Advaita Vedanta (even if it isn't obvious), but he did so in a very mundane, simple manner. And, Osho wasn't a Guru to the custodians of philosophy and religion, but to everyday people - who're lost and need a Guru foremost.

Venus (R) may make someone a rebel in artistic fields - surrealism? Jupiter (R), well placed and positively aspected, may actually mean a very spiritual person who has a very unorthodox and unconventional way of looking at spirituality, or someone whose Guru is unconventional.

You can't expect a snap-shot definition. Whether it's retrogression, Karakamsha, exaltation/debilitation, VRY, or anything other combination.

A eccentric person, who's an activist - highly influential, but not a position holder vs a well-mannered person, in a top position, but not that influential? An innovator who paves the path for the future, yet not a millionaire vs a millionaire who's hanging on the last threads of history?

All of these are successes. And, as people, especially Jyotishis or enthusiasts, we need to keep our mind open. One man's food is another man's poison, no?

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Jan » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:01 am

I'll give you an example though: Osho had Jupiter (R) in Cancer. Tell me where - in this enlightened person's life - did it act debilitated? What it did do is give a different dimension to spirituality. Osho mostly spoke of Advaita Vedanta (even if it isn't obvious), but he did so in a very mundane, simple manner. And, Osho wasn't a Guru to the custodians of philosophy and religion, but to everyday people - who're lost and need a Guru foremost.
No his exalted RxJupiter does not in any way acts like a debilitated Jupiter, which gives qualities as lack of faith in ones knowledge et.c.

He did in fact before being a Guru work as a university proffessor. The archetypical Jupiterian domain.
Having completed his B.A. in philosophy at D. N. Jain College in 1955, he joined the University of Sagar, where in 1957 he earned his M.A. in philosophy (with distinction).[32] He immediately secured a teaching post at Raipur Sanskrit College

Jan
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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Jan » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:09 am

Forgot to mention that the years he did go into university as professor he was in a subperiod of Jupiter.

He did proceed as controversial guru in his Rahu period (which acts like Jupiter since Rahu is in pisces), and
in his Jupiter period.

I think that Jupiter exaltation is giving strength to his teaching. But Jupiter is in gandanta at 29 degrees in
ashlesha nakshatra, in 3rd house aspected by Mars. So it is a complex Jupiter with some afflicted ashlesha
qualities like the focus on sex and a certain rawness in expression.
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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by Helius » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:07 am

Gandanta at 29 degrees? I too have a query on planets at last degrees, any one who has more infos on the same please reply when you find time. [LL Saturn at last degrees (29*) - Anaretic/Karmic degree? - DOB: Male 01 Oct 1982, 14:15 IST (hospital time), Chennai (13.1°N 80.233°E) India.]

Thanks.

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MyHead
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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by MyHead » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:09 am

I know a case where Jupiter is retro and in Capricorn. The native runs Jupiter MD. He s doing extremely well in Career! Landed a super job with a hefty pay recently in the US. Scorpio Ascendant, with 3rd house Jupi aspected by venus

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by astrolearner15 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:58 pm

I have been watching Joni Patry's videos, and it seems that she strongly follows the rule that Retrograde exalted planets act as if they are debilitated and vice versa. Moreover, she has in the past shown examples where retrograde and debilitated planets were acting as exalted planets.

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Re: Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

Post by neelkumar » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:56 pm

marian i. wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:32 am
Hi,

Yes, this rule always works.

Exalted+ retrograde= debilitated;
Debilitated+ retrograde= exalted.

Retrograde means "the opposite results", astrologicaly. Also, for all the retrograde planets this rule works. If someone has Jupiter in Gemini retrograde, he will act like Jupiter in Saggitarius. The worst placements are of natural malefic planets in kendra, in own house but retrograde. Hell on earth type of results.
The rule is given in a book which is considered authoritative (I forgat for now the title/ author of that book).

Regards,
M
Such an important topic and useful responses.

Kindly refer my chart - my retro Jupiter is in Aquarius lagna.
So, obviously, it's debilitated.

So, according to this rule, does it mean my Jupiter is exalted?
So, according to this rule, this retro Aquarius Jupiter will act as which house Jupiter?

But, Astrology softwares like JHora and especially Prashara Light show my Jupiter as debilitated?!

Thanks,
Neel
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मुझें क्यॉ रोंक पाओगे, ऊँजला रोंकने वालोँ।

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