Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

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Shrikanth
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Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by Shrikanth » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:01 am

Dear All,

In this subject of relationships, partners and formal wedding and marital relations, temporary and permanent relationships - there are whole gamut of things to be studied.

Venus is the Karaka or significator for all things that deal with luxuries, comforts, enjoyments and pleasure. So he also deals with the conjugal relationships and the pleasure of having company of others.

In the Rasi chart
The 7th house deals with how you view and deal with the world or how the world is coming to you. The planets in the 7th indicate your attitude towards relationships as well. For example Lord Sri Rama was a very gentle, wise and peace loving person ( Asc with Jup and Moon in a Sattwic Cancer ), but had exalted Mars in the 7th - his world was always about conflict, being a warrior, fighting demons, fighting or being in battles etc.,
Planets in the 7th house indicate what kind of people you are looking for or more likely to hope for (not explicitly but also instinctively)

Arudha of the 7th house A7 (planets in conjunction with A7, aspecting A7 or lord of A7 if no planets influenceing) indicates what kind of people one associates - Mercury - intellectual, Jupiter - wise and learned, Moon - highly social people, Sun - political etc.,

In general a marriage between a two consenting individuals is all about sacrifice and sharing. The couple have to share their living space, spend their incomes on the other, investing time, money, effort for family/children/or even in-laws. Since marriage does involve giving, losing, sharing or sacrificing - the Arudha of the 12th often called as Upapada lagna is of high importance in wedding/marital analysis.

Upapada Lagna - This is the Arudha of the 12th house in the Rasi chart. Take the lord of the 12th house and count the distance from house to lord. Count the same distance from the lord. If this place is in 1st or 7th from 12th house then count ten more house.
This is how we calculate the Upapada lagna. The calculation is just like Arudha lagna - but here we use the 12th house as a basis.
For example :
Cancer Ascendant; 12L Mercury is in Leo (3 house away from 12th) - then count 3 from Leo - places the Upapada lagna in Libra. (No exception need to be applied)
Leo Ascendant; 12L Moon is in Libra (4 houses away from 12th) - then count 4 from Libra - this place (Capricorn) is in the 7th from 12th (Cancer) - so count
ten more houses - the UL is placed in Libra again.


The planets in the Upapada Lagna or planets aspecting the UL provide some indications about the partner his nature, attitudes, tendencies - some clues about his profession etc., The placement of the UL lord give some indications about his position in the society - whether rich or middle class;
Too many malefics influencing the UL without any benefics can cause serious delays or denial of marriage - when there are mixed influences the wedding may happen, but the marriage will have anger, frustration, conflict (Mars), sorrow, pain and suffering (Saturn) and shock and lies (Rahu), too much conservative, religious views (Ketu) etc.,

2nd from UL indicates the sustenance of the marriage - Malefics influences on the UL, but benefics in 2nd from UL indicate painful wedding but the pain will continue by sustained marriage. Benefics in UL but malefics in 2nd from UL - good marriage but circumstances will cause the break or end of marriage.

3rd and the 8th from the UL indicate the strength, length and vitality of this wedding/marriage. 2nd and 7th indicates weakness (marakas) to the UL. 9th indicates the blessings in this marriage and the 11th from UL indicate the gains out of this marriage.
Planets in the 7th also indicates opposition forces to this marriage.

In the olden days the world of relationships, marriage, weddings were very simplistic and straightforward - nowadays this have evolved so much there is so many variations to relationships - including concepts of dating, living together, extramarital affairs, illicit relations etc.,

A relationship that last less than 1 yr is mostly considered to be a temporary one and should be mostly seen from the A7, Permanent ones are mostly to be seen from the UL.

When one marriage ends the next marriage (or the potential for the next) is seen from the 8th from the UL. The next one begins where the first ends. As one can see if there are multiple malefics influencing the 2nd from UL1 (UL1 now indicates first marriage) - there is a strong possibility that these malefics are now in the 7th from the UL2 - this we find that 2nd marriages are not so easy to come by - take very long time and labored
For example if UL1 is in Aquarius and Pisces has Mars and Saturn causing break up of UL1; UL2 seen from Virgo has Mars and Saturn in the 7th from UL2.

Moving on to Navamsa
The Navamsa gives the scenario at home after the wedding is all done - the environment of home in the marital life.
7th in the Navamsa indicates the how the first marriage is going to be; benefics good, malefics bad.
Mars in the 7th - fights, arguments, conflicts, anger, aggression.
Saturn in the 7th - sadness, pain and suffering, coldness.
Rahu opposing views, may be from other cultures, backgrounds - not just intercaste - just a general difference of opinion.
Ketu too religious or dogmatic also opposing views.
Sun - authoritative, independent, egoistic, pride
Mercury - intellectual, talkative,
Jupiter and Venus - ideal, supportive, romantic (Venus)
Moon - social, many friends, compassionate.

2nd from the 7th also indicate what will cause the first marriage to be sustained or breakup - benefics good, malefics bad.
Again following same principles as UL1 - but the 7th is the what kind of partner you actually get - not the 7th you were hoping to get (that is seen from 7th in Rasi)

In Navamsa the 6th house can indicate fights, obstacles, own weaknesses etc., and 8th indicate the sustenance to the first marriage.
So involvement of the 7th lord in 6H is usually not very auspicious. Also 6L involved in 8H and 8L involved in 7th is highly detrimental to marital bliss. Also look for Arudhas of 6th and 8th and planets in these Arudhas are most often involved in triggering problems and causing damage.
7th lord in 8th is usually considered very good and auspicious unless afflicted.

Again for subsequent marriages - analyze the 8th to the 7th and so on.

The 6th house indicate growth or expansion; So I would opine that 6th from 7th would indicate some sort of addition - in terms of relation may also indicate other interests (not necessarily extra marital or illicit). If we review carefully 6th from 7th is usually the 12th from the Ascendant and can indicate the native going away or foreign places for some reason or other - can indicate foreign for business or living abroad or may need to be separated due to some other duties/responsibilities.

I've also noted that involvement of the 7L in the 2nd has mostly caused the native to gain from his/her spouse - the native's asset increases after marriage or the spouse itself is very supportive and is indeed an resource/asset to the Native.

Just thought I'd write up this post so that people can read and benefit and check their own charts and see how this aligns with their relationships.
Again this is not a full fledged bible - just a short essay on this subject - many specifics/dictums are missing.
I'll occasionally update this post with more details or corrections - so please do check back again.

Hope this helps
Shrikanth

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by Satya » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:24 pm

Dear Shrikanth,

Thanks for a nice summary - all the points at one place.

[quote]7th lord in 8th is usually considered very good and auspicious unless afflicted. [/quote]

I thought 8th is a maraka for 7th and hence 7th lord in 8th normally means divorce/seperation if other factors indicate the same in the chart.

- Satya

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by Satya » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:41 pm

Shrikanth,

[quote]Planets in the 7th also indicates opposition forces to this marriage.[/quote]

You said planets 7th from UL indicate opposition, but what if UL lord itself is in 7th from UL?

I have UL in Aries, and AL in Libra and Libra is with Venus, Mars and Rahu. Does that mean UL lord and AL lord oppose the marriage - lord of upapada represents family or native? And what does it mean to have both UL lord and AL lord together?

I have also read that break of a upapada leads to break/challenges in all other significations of planets in 2nd house from that particular upapada. Say Venus is in 2nd from UL and Venus rules 10H in your chart, first marriage breakup leads to a break in career as well. Did I get it right?

I have "all" the malefics aspecting UL in my Rasi chart and 2nd from UL has Jupiter (R). My first relationship had all the pains you have mentioned for Rahu, Saturn, Mars and Ketu and I could not break it however hard I tried for the last 5 years.

- Satya

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by Shrikanth » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:08 pm

From the perspective of the 7th house - its lagna lord in 2nd - how can lagna lord himself be a maraka for the native.
Here the 7th lord will work on sustaining and feeding the relationship - not trying to break.
The other way of 8th lord in 7th - 8L agenda is purely all negative in ending things - Here he'll end the 7th.
Satya wrote:Dear Shrikanth,

Thanks for a nice summary - all the points at one place.
7th lord in 8th is usually considered very good and auspicious unless afflicted.
I thought 8th is a maraka for 7th and hence 7th lord in 8th normally means divorce/seperation if other factors indicate the same in the chart.

- Satya

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by Shrikanth » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:17 pm

7th is house of opposition or challenges associated with this relationship/wedding.
If UL lord is there - then the partner is somewhat a barrier to this relationship. You'll need to bring your partner on board for a fruitful relationship.
same applies to AL - you yourself may be against or indecisive about this relationship.

Yes - 2nd from UL shows what else breaks when a marriage breaks or what else causes the marriage to break.
I remember seeing a case where a native's marriage broke after she had her second child ( and final child ) - the native's spouse
was involved in an extramarital relation with somebody else. The native's UL was in the 4H and 2nd from UL (5h) had 3 malefics Sat-Mars-Rahu
So when children were born (or during or around their birth), the marriage broke.
The same can be said about career or health or fortune etc.,

UL involved with all malefics makes the marriage painful - but dear Jupiter is holding the marriage together in the 2nd from UL.

Shrikanth
Satya wrote:Shrikanth,
Planets in the 7th also indicates opposition forces to this marriage.
You said planets 7th from UL indicate opposition, but what if UL lord itself is in 7th from UL?

I have UL in Aries, and AL in Libra and Libra is with Venus, Mars and Rahu. Does that mean UL lord and AL lord oppose the marriage - lord of upapada represents family or native? And what does it mean to have both UL lord and AL lord together?

I have also read that break of a upapada leads to break/challenges in all other significations of planets in 2nd house from that particular upapada. Say Venus is in 2nd from UL and Venus rules 10H in your chart, first marriage breakup leads to a break in career as well. Did I get it right?

I have "all" the malefics aspecting UL in my Rasi chart and 2nd from UL has Jupiter (R). My first relationship had all the pains you have mentioned for Rahu, Saturn, Mars and Ketu and I could not break it however hard I tried for the last 5 years.

- Satya

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by Satya » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:37 pm

Thanks, Shrikanth.

Not many speak of upapada when talking about marriage and your posts have been most helpful in understanding the concept.

Again, when you say 7th lord in 8th protects the marriage, who does that signify - is it the spouse working hard to keep it intact?

Is there any way to look at timing for each relationship by using UL - commencement and breakup? I read some where upapada or planets in upapada represents the physical person coming into your life. So do we take the time this person appears in front of you as commencement of that UL or is it the time you decide being serious about it as a relationship - say a formal engagement or oral commitment? Do we use normal Vimsottari and look for dasa of UL and UL lord or depositor or UL lord?

Fortunately or unfortunately, mine is not a marriage. I waited for marriage for more than 4 years and decided to move on although it is being difficult to do so now in practicality. Of course, I cannot see anything related to 2nd (Jupiter or 10H) or 8th (Scorpio or 4H) in this UL break off as of now.

- Satya

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by rajitha » Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:38 am

Shrikanthji,
I had missed this topic. Nice to see another great topic from you.
Thanks for answering my question about how UL is so important in marriage, though not connected to 7th house.

If there are no planets in the 7th house, can we assume that the traits we are looking for is reflected by the 7th Lord?

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by Shrikanth » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:01 am

Dear Rajithaji,

7th house is the house of interactions and in general relationships - among which your spousal relationship is a major one.
If no planets in 7H then take 7L is usual dictum - but we are still talking about relationships in general.
Actually more than the 7H/7L - A7 plays a major role in this area of "relationship circle"

Your interactions in the world will finally get you a spouse or a partner - mostly from that sphere.
If one always interacts with intellectual people - chances are he'll find one among them worth being his partner.
Again also look at 7H/7L as what we look for in a partner.
What kind of partner you feel being more comfortable with.

Planets in 7H shows what you are looking for in your partner and 7H in Navamsa shows what you actually get after the wedding
bills are paid. :)

Shrikanth

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by lovacrs » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:44 pm

Shrikanth ji,
Planets in 7H shows what you are looking for in your partner and 7H in Navamsa shows what you actually get after the wedding
bills are paid.
Is it reasonable to assume that the spouse's lagna will be either the sign in 7th in Navamsha or sign owned by the same lord?

CRS
CRS

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by Shrikanth » Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:49 am

Dear Lovacrs,

Glad that you brought up this point.

Here's what I have seen on this matter. Let's say husband and wife charts
The Rasi lagna of the wife will be in trines to the UL lord of the Husband and vice versa as well.

For example
I have Cancer Ascendant - in my wife's chart her UL placed in Leo, with UL lord Sun is placed in Cancer
trines to Cancer - so it can be Cancer, Scorpio or Pisces. Here's in my case its Cancer.

My UL is placed in Libra; lord Venus is in Pisces - trines to Pisces is Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces.
My wife's lagna is Cancer.

This I've applied to my parents charts, my sister and brother-in-law, myself as above and many more
If I remember correctly this worked even with Indira Gandhi and Feroz Gandhi as well.

This alone isnt a observation - sometimes UL itself can be trines to the spouse's lagna.

Apply this in your charts and see if this applies

Simple rule very useful in rectifying charts if you need more confirmation points.

Shrikanth

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by lovacrs » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:09 pm

Thanks Shrikanth ji.

Does not seem to work in my case, probably inaccurate birth data. My UL is Vi with Me in Aq. My wife's As is Sc.
My wife's UL is Cn with Mo in Le, while my lagna is Ge.
Let me see what other members have experienced.

Thanks
CRS
Last edited by lovacrs on Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
CRS

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by ami26 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:15 am

Shrikanth ji,

[quote]Planets in the 7th also indicates opposition forces to this marriage[/quote]

I have 7th lord Sun placed in the 7th from UL (Taurus 4th house). What does this mean? Would the 7th lord oppose marriage? I had read somewhere that the Sun is not considered a malefic for the UL? UL lord Venus is placed in the 8th from UL. I am not married..want to get married but things are not materializing..

Thank you,
Aparna

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by Shrikanth » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:24 pm

Dear Aparna,

For matters of Dharma - Sun is not a malefic.
So Sun in the 7th is not so inauspicious. If he's highly afflicted consider him to cause some damage.

One thing I did not mention in the post earlier was that the planets in the 7th oppose by their karakatwas they represent
as do their lordship.

So Sun in the 7th can mean that a fatherly figure may oppose the marriage.
It may not mean oppose the marriage - but in practical you may need to pacify, work thru or go thru a fatherly figure
for the wedding to happen.

Hope this helps
Shrikanth

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by ami26 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:19 pm

Thank you for your reply Shrikanth ji. Your posts are always helpful and so interesting!!

[quote]So Sun in the 7th is not so inauspicious. If he's highly afflicted consider him to cause some damage.[/quote]

The sun is aspected by Mars and Saturn from 7th and 8th house respectively. So would it be considered as somewhat afflicted to cause damage/delays in this case? Sorry if my questions appear silly, I am just a learner.. :)

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by Spring » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:13 pm

Hi Shrikanthji /others

How do we calculate / arrive at the Upapada Lagna ?

Rgds
Spring

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by Shrikanth » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:47 pm

Dear Spring,

After your post - I've edited my post to include the UL calculation as well.

Thanks for your query.

Shrikanth

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by Spring » Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:09 am

Thanks Shrikanthji I have managed to calculate my UL

I was wondering if apart from 7th from UL if 12th from UL could also be used to see as causing conflict to the marriage?

Comming to the planets in the 7H & owner of 7H do they define the area from which the oppostion is likely to come. (Eg Ma ( bro in law)/ Mo (mom in law)/ Su ( father in law)/Ve (sis in law). If this analogy is correct then what about Me /Ke & Ra? What do they denote?

I have another confusion
You wrote UL helps us understand the nature of our spouse
In my case my UL is Sc (4H) I have Ve(GK) & Me (AmK)in Sc
In the 5H I have Ma (AK) with Su(DK)
Me gives a childish nature & Ve gives appeciation for all the finer things in life,but since im a leo asc I thought my spouse would have all the saturine qualities & be a traditionalist who would have no love for the good life.

Would appreciate your comments.


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Spring

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by Shrikanth » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:11 am

Dear Spring,

If all people born with Leo Ascendant get boring Saturnine spouses - by nature that's just too plain and boring.
So the nature likes to shakes things up and gives Leo natives with some variety.

Look at the Ascendant as "You" and the 7th house as the world you interact with - the "Others"
Your spouse comes from the group of "Others".

The UL indicates the tangible aspect of your "giving" - who, what, where etc.,
Venus and Mercury are first rate benefics and there placement in the UL is quite auspicious.
You can use the AL (Arudha Lagna) and the placement of UL from AL to judge your compatibility with your spouse.

From what I've learnt (or heard) 12th from UL is people (or personalities) not involved or away or unavailable in your wedding/marriage.
Put it in perspective if Moon is in 12th from UL - may be your Mother in Law or Mother away or not unavailable etc.,

Mercury usually signifies cousins, uncles, relatives.
Rahu signifies foreigner or a stranger / outsider
Ketu signifies a Ascetic or Sadhu or a detached person.

Hope this helps
Shrikanth

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by psha85 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:39 am

Hi Shrikanth ji-

In my chart, my 2nd UL is Aries which has Mars and Rahu. This describes the person who I am considering for marriage now as his lagna is Aries, he is very high energy person (Mars) and dark-skinned and different race than myself (Rahu). The second to this UL is Taurus being ruled by exalted Venus in 9th house. However, the 8th to UL is Scorpio which has retrograde Saturn, and this is aspecting the second house from UL (Taurus). Does this mean that the marriage will go forward despite delays/obstacles in the beginning?

I am not sure if I have interpreted this correctly so any insight would be appreciated. My details are below if needed:

DOB: 17 March 1985
Time: 13.27
Place: Visalia, California - USA

Thanks & Regards,


*Pooja*

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Re: Understanding Relationships, Weddings and Marriages

Post by kunalbhardwaj27 » Mon May 03, 2010 3:44 am

Dear Shrikanth ji,

Wat if UL is 7th From AL...... And if UL has rahu and UL is aspected by SUN,MERCURYAND KETU by their 7th aspect in rasi chart..
see in forest mummy duck is going to water pond for swimming means - daddy duck and baby ducks is going in the backside of mummy duck and jumping in water. Not looking this side not looking that side. Simply jumping.

-- Howzat

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