A study: Double Debilitation of Venus - for sagit lagna

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A study: Double Debilitation of Venus - for sagit lagna

Post by felix1 » 01 Oct 2012

Greetings people,

Jataka Parijata, Makes quite a statement:
If Venus be in the sign Virgo accupying a Navamsa of Virgo, a beggar is born.
It is generally said that Venus being the planet of Sukha going debilitated will take toll on the Sukha of the natives. In another thread in the forum I'd also been seeking clarification for the oddity in the debilitation of Venus, He debilitates in the sign of a friend. Which inturn led to furthur questions on whether Debilitation is to be considered at the D-charts at all since the D-charts don't represent a contigous sky. However most classics do talk of debilitation in the D-charts and also state that a planet in exaltation when debilitated in a D-chart suffers quite a fall.

How about when the planet is Varogottam?
When it is Uccha Vargottam, i.e., Planet in exaltation in both rasi & navamsa: No doubt here this is a good combination to have. (Ex: Amitabh I'm told has Ucha varagottam of Jupiter).

But what about Neecha Vargottam?? Planet debilitated in both Navamsa & Rasi? Is it bound to give the worst results? It is said that the D-9 is the fruit and the D-1 is the tree. D-1 is the desire and D-9 is the fullfilment. If we are to take it that way, From the perspective of the Native's mind: it is clear that an exalted planet in D-1 going debil in D-9 is a painful painful fall (A strong desire with no fullfilment). While a debilitated planet in D-1 going exalted in D-9 is a good thing, sort of like an unexpected bonus. But taken that way, a planet debilitated in both D-1 and D-9 then simply represent no desire/no fullfilment either, which doesn't seem to be as bad as fallen exaltation. But is this the case?

Compounding this is the case where such a planet is an Malefic for the lagna. Any planet no matter benefic/malefic, I'd expect debilitation isn't a good thing, since it increases its maleficiance and takes a toll on the planets natural signification. What is that for Venus: Marriage & General Sukha in life. Congeniality in interactions, as well I'd guess.

With that in mind, I've been looking around for charts that contain Venus debilitated in both Navamsa and Rasi. Inorder to not let too many variables dilute the study, I decided to focus on one lagna: Saggitarius
Why?
1. Venus is peak malefic for this lagna.
2. Confession: I understand myself best. I've the combo.

Such a study I thought should clarify 3 things to me:
1. Is it good to have malefics debilitated.
2. How much of an impact does Sukha really take.
3. What does Neecha Varragottam do.

I understand that one needs to look at the chart in toto.. What we are trying to get out of this is to see when the combination taken alone, where does it add to the the chart and what does it subtract.
I'd like to ask people to refrain from asking for personal predictions here, but if you are a saggi and have this combination, please feel free to post your experiences. IOW: This thread I hope is mostly a look into the past for learning rather than a glimpse into future. Though we start with Sagitarrius, if we end up needing to look at someother lagna do let me know (I'll try to find charts that satisfy the contraints. But it may take time, since it took me quite a while to flush out charts with this specific criteria.)

With that, I'd like to invite comments on the following chart. (Will post more as we go.)
1.
DOB: 30-Nov-1959
Place: Glasgow, UK
Time: 10:45am.
What can be said about the marriage, life in general, and what is venus's role here?
I've my own naive beginners view, But I'd appreciate if the experts can give their comments.
Last edited by felix1 on 13 Oct 2012, edited 1 time in total.



Tiwari

Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by Tiwari » 01 Oct 2012

Felix,

Hello. Long time no see.

Do you use bhava or rashi system? If I recall correctly, ChandraLagna once said I have venus in kanya in lagna. My time is 06:12, if you don't have it right, and in case you wish to study the chart, though I am not a saggi lagna. And I have no intentions to divert the topic :)

Good luck,
T

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 01 Oct 2012

Tiwari wrote:Felix,

Hello. Long time no see.

Do you use bhava or rashi system? If I recall correctly, ChandraLagna once said I have venus in kanya in lagna. My time is 06:12, if you don't have it right, and in case you wish to study the chart, though I am not a saggi lagna. And I have no intentions to divert the topic :)

Good luck,
T
Good day, T.

It doesn't matter if one is using the Bhava or Rashi system, the planets sign in either case will be the same. Bhava/Rashi system will make a difference in Lordships and Houses rather than a planets placement in a sign. (That can only change when you change Aynamsha. Like SSS/Drik). Your venus is in own house, Libra.
(Thats another oddity about venus, straight after Neecha Vargotam, it straight away goes into its moolatrikona.)

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 04 Oct 2012

Image

This chart belongs to Lorraine Kelly.

Kelly’s father, John, worked as a television repairman. She turned down a university place to read English and Russian in favour of a job on the East Kilbride News, her local newspaper, and then joined BBC Scotland as a researcher in 1983. She moved to TV-am as an on-screen reporter covering Scottish news in 1984.

Her mini biography as capture in Imdb:
Extremely likeable brunette Scottish television presenter on UK Television, Lorraine Kelly is is currently one of the original presenters of "GMTV" (1993). Her present role is a magazine section for the final forty minutes of the broadcast, known as 'LK Today'.

Previously, a reporter and main presenter of TVam's "Good Morning Britain" (1983), one of the UK's original breakfast television news programmes. Perfectly cast in a studio role presenting the The Eurovision Song Contest (2004) (TV).

She remains a true gem in the breakfast television world.
Popular with viewers for her upbeat professionalism along with an infectious giggle, Kelly impressed employers with her speed at which she and her cameraman arrived on locations before other journalists. Her cameraman was always close at hand as well as her boyfriend. During 1988, a high-profile year for her, Kelly was quietly and gradually brought to the attention of Scottish AM-TV. She remained after the franchise was purchased by GMTV, 1/01/1993, and followed in a long line of female breakfast television presenters. Kelly was voted the sexiest woman on TV by many of her viewers.

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 04 Oct 2012

Image

Excerpt out of an interview that gives us a closer look:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvan ... nd-Me.html

Lorraine Kelly has led a life largely untouched by scandal, nastiness or infamy of any kind.
She grew up infused with a sense that she must try her hardest at whatever she did. Opting for journalism, she worked on local papers before being taken on as a researcher by the BBC in the early 1980s. At the time Kelly was, by her own description, 'a small, round, bespectacled figure'. But she was a small, round, bespectacled figure with attitude, so that after she'd been told by the BBC that her Glasgow accent would prevent her from having a career in broadcasting, she did not mope or repine. Instead, she phoned Bruce Gyngell, boss of the just launched TV-am, and asked if she could come and see him.

That must have taken a lot of nerve? 'Oh, I know. At the time I just thought, well, if he tells me to bugger off, that's all right. What did I have to lose? It's funny because I've never throught of myself as being a particularly pushy person, but I suppose I must have been. I don't think I would have the balls to do it now, though.'

Gyngell, however, saw something in her; all that was needed was a little tweaking. So out went the glasses, up - as well as outwards - went the hair and in came the shoulder pads. Within a few months Kelly was sitting on the TV-am sofa presenting Good Morning Britain.

'Basically I was just plonked on the sofa and told to get on with it. Luckily I was able to deal with the talkback [the system whereby the producer barks instructions into the interviewer's ear]. That's a skill you either have or you don't. And I found it really easy to talk to people, too - but then I guess I always have. There's no magic to it, not as far as I'm concerned. I just ask people what I want to know and I never shy away from obvious questions because they often get you the best answers.'

When TV-am went down the pan, she helped launch GMTV in 1993. To begin with her show was gleefully savaged by the critics. People said she was too fat - Kelly has long been a vigorous opponent of diets - while the Daily Mail claimed that she didn't really have a Scottish accent, but simply put it on for effect. However, when the dust settled Kelly was still there with a regular audience of around four million. Since then the mix has stayed much the same - celebrity interviews, non-celebrity interviews, newsy items, fashion tips and financial advice, all linked together by Kelly in her deceptively amateurish, Mother Hen-ish way.

But while most viewers tune into LK Today so that Kelly can nurse them through that awkward post-breakfast lull, others do so for darker, more lascivious reasons. Robert Downey Jnr once remarked on LK Today that he thought Kelly had 'fantastic t***'. He was not alone; millions of others had been gazing appreciatively at her chest for years.

Far from finding this objectionable, Kelly chose to put public awareness of her breasts to good use: she's run three marathons to raise money for breast cancer charities. 'The first one I did, I was overtaken by a bloke dressed as a pair of t********, while a 94-year- old Sikh man insisted on waiting so that I crossed the line before him. I wouldn't say I was particularly fit, but I am very tenacious. There's a Scottish word - thrawn - that's like stubborn, but more so. Basically it means I'm going to be buggered if I'm not going to do this.'

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 04 Oct 2012

Twice while we are talking Kelly says in a rather apologetic voice, 'Nothing bad has ever happened to me.' Is this really true? 'Oh gosh…well no. I mean, we've all been through stuff, haven't we? I couldn't have any more kids, for instance. And then I had a miscarriage, which was not great. But I'm not Rebecca of Sunny-brook farm, you know. I don't wake up in the morning going La-la-la-la. Generally, though, I think I've had it pretty good.'

However, three years ago something bad - and bizarre - did happen to Kelly: she was accused of sexual assault. Aptly enough, breasts lay at the heart of it. A female contestant on a show called Vote for Me claimed that Kelly had tried to grope her. Although there was no evidence to support the woman's claim, it looked for a time as if the case might end up in court.

'I remember I was so distraught that I threw up. That was when my lawyer said, you'll be finished if this case ever does go to court, because even if you win people will always associate you with this story. In the end it was all OK, but it made me realise just how vulnerable you are doing a job like mine. I know I don't tend to show it, but I'm a terrible worrier at the best of times. I've never had much self-belief and I'm always riddled with self-doubt. Somehow that really got to me and I think I've felt more sensitive ever since.'

Since then Kelly has gone though that strange rite of passage in British broadcasting whereby people pass through extreme naffness to a kind of trendiness. Much to her astonishment, Lorraine Kelly has become cool. She's also - again to her surprise - picked up a huge gay following. 'I don't pretend to understand any of it,' she says. 'Nor do I try. I'm very proud that I have such a large gay following, but to be honest I'm just grateful when anyone likes me.'

Kelly has now been presenting breakfast television for an unprecedented 25 years.
Personal Life:
Her father John, a television repairman, and mother, Anne, married when they were both 17. Lorraine was born a year later. Lorraine’s parents started married life in Glasgow’s tough Gorbals district before being rehoused in East Kilbride when Lorraine was 12. "I’m fiercely proud of being Glaswegian and working class I can sit on that sofa and talk to whoever, and I think a lot of that has to do with your background.”

Lorraine is married to Steve, who was her cameraman when she was covering Scotland for TV-am in 1985. "We were pals for a year before anything happened. I knew I was going to marry Steve from the moment we first started dating in 1985. As soon as he walked into the office I knew he was the one.” The couple have an eight year old daughter, Rosie.

She is now 52. Still with Steve and her daughter Rosie: We can conclude it was a stable marraige.

She recently was honoured by Queen Elizabeth II with an OBE

Image
Lorraine with her 18-year-old daughter Rosie at the ceremony.

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 04 Oct 2012

OK so thats what has happened so far.

Now moving on to the astrology part of it, so that we can dissect & learn:

First thing to notice about the chart: There is not just one debilitation that is varagotam but two!

Both Venus (the peak malefic) and Moon (the 8th Lord) are both in debilitation in both Rasi and Navamsa. Add to that a combust Lagna Lord. But in the case of Moon we see that he is there with an Own house mars and so probably gains neecha bhanga. Furthur more, its a conjunction of two tirnal lords Sun & mars with a combust Lagna Lord, Mercury and the 8th lord, all of them in the 12th a drik house. Thus all the kendra lords are in 12th house and so is the 8th lord.

For mercury its enemical placement. The 10th house on the other hand has the most malefic double debilitated Venus. One would expect that this isn't a good thing. Yet we can see from her life that its been successful carrier and Marriage. Venus had a say in both of these, since its his natural signification and he is in the 10th.

A few theories on why its been a success for her: The peak malefic debilitated reduces problems in life?

But then here I don't think it was merely the lack of problems, the reason for her success seems mostly Venusian (That is he didn't just reduce in maleficience, rather seems to have been beneficial!). Being TV anchor described as extremely likeable and good looking. Ruling communication and research is also mercury and he is aptly the 10th lord and hence the outcome seems quite accurate: Her work has to do with a mix of both Venus & Merc. But please note it was not the journalist that made it big, it was the TV anchor. So I tend to link her fame as being more due to Venus.

Furthur the turning point year:

1988 - Ven-Ven-Ket (The turning point year. Dec-1988 covered the Lockerbie bombing, asked to present the news hour in London on TVam from 6am to 7am) (In transit: Sun-Merc over natal Sun-Merc. Venus in own house libra. Moon in 10th with Mars mutual aspect. Ju aspects 10th & 2nd. Sat aspects 10th.) (Ever since then, shes been presenting the Breakfast show for 20 years!)

How about the marraige? That was successful as well. Is there something else that can explain both of this other than Venus? The obvious other candidate is Mercury the 7th & 10th lord. It is possible that this was due to mercury, She met Steve at work. Both houses ruled by Merc. Merc is enemically placed in both Rasi and Navamsa. But then Merc is in Pushkara Navamsa!

He has certainly given a PUSH indeed:
AM-TV - 1984 - Ket-Sat, Ket-Merc.

How much does a Retrograde Badhaka in Pushkara Navamsa repair? Would like to know what other astrologers think.

She wasn't born elite, but rather made it to riches and fame. Saturn the 2nd and 2rd lord is in lagna. He is 0 digbala there. The 11th lord of income is venus, whom as we know is debilitated in both Navamsa and Lagna. There are no aspects on either 2nd or 11th? So what caused the wealth?

vpn

Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by vpn » 04 Oct 2012

Heya Felix,

My venus is in the eighth, lord of my lagna and the sixth, also in ketu's domain. What do you make of this?

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by Ghrishneswar » 04 Oct 2012

This is a difficult chart. Got to check in J Hora over weekend.

How accurate is birth data?
Regards,

Ghrishneswar

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 04 Oct 2012

Accurate enough Ghrishneswar. I suppose its from the Birth Certificate.

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 04 Oct 2012

felix1 wrote: A few theories on why its been a success for her: The peak malefic debilitated reduces problems in life?

But then here I don't think it was merely the lack of problems, the reason for her success seems mostly Venusian (That is he didn't just reduce in maleficience, rather seems to have been beneficial!).
Additional food for thought:
One school of thought is that Rashi is not the same as Bhava. If one takes the Sripathi system with Asc being the begining of the bhava, then there is a crucial change that explains Venus's beneficience: He is no longer the peak malefic, instead he becomes YogaKara!. Albiet debilitated yet. This makes moon the 7th lord.

Also note that while moon is hemmed between Sun and Jupiter, Merc and Mars are quite away from the pack.

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by ChandraLagna » 04 Oct 2012

F1: Good & interesting thread.

To cross the t's, Moon, sun and jupiter are now in 11th bhava, and yogakaraka venus now is in 9th of bhagya-sthana.

Tiwari: Your venus remains in libra, just becomes part of first bhava.

And, as you can see, Felix and I have exchanged notes on bhavas, on chat actually. In fact, chat has become very focused on astrology nowadays.
--भज गोविन्दं... भज गोविन्दं...गोविन्दं भज, मूढमते --

With Regards,
ChandraLagna

Tiwari

Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by Tiwari » 04 Oct 2012

Dear CL,

Okay, makes sense. Venus stays in libra. Glad to know the chat is becoming more astro centeric! :) And music, poetry, and literature are not being missed....

Warmly,
T

vpn

Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by vpn » 04 Oct 2012

Yeah, the regular clown "vpn"'s also bowed out of lova chat...lol

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 05 Oct 2012

CL sir,

Thanks a lot for wirting.
There will be more Ts to cross and I's to dot as we go.
Hope you help me out.


Ok Next chart:
DOB:9 November 1841
TOB:10:48 LMT
POB:London U.K
This one is a complete deviation from the sloka.

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 06 Oct 2012

felix1 wrote:
felix1 wrote: A few theories on why its been a success for her: The peak malefic debilitated reduces problems in life?

But then here I don't think it was merely the lack of problems, the reason for her success seems mostly Venusian (That is he didn't just reduce in maleficience, rather seems to have been beneficial!).
Additional food for thought:
One school of thought is that Rashi is not the same as Bhava. If one takes the Sripathi system with Asc being the begining of the bhava, then there is a crucial change that explains Venus's beneficience: He is no longer the peak malefic, instead he becomes YogaKara!. Albiet debilitated yet. This makes moon the 7th lord.

Also note that while moon is hemmed between Sun and Jupiter, Merc and Mars are quite away from the pack.

Does anyone have an explanation for this when we take Rasi == Bhava?
Would appreciate if someone following the Rasi == Bhava system could throw some light. (I believe the vast majority here follow that system).

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by Ghrishneswar » 07 Oct 2012

If you assume Lorraine;’ birth time is correct. Venus is no doubt a first rate malefic for Sg lagna.
It is debilitated in 10H and conjunct Ra.
Now no matter how Ve is behaving here is will magnify the agenda of Ve.
Let us look very close.
Ve is neecha but vargottama.
Ve Nk dispositor is Ma who reasonably placed on 12H in Scorpio.
Ve Rasi dispositor is Me retro and conjunct 5 planets on 12H but along with its dispositor Mars again.
Ve is AK is debilitated both Rasi and D9.

Ve and Saturn being in mutual kendras are good from income perspective. Sa is 2L and Ve is 11L. Sa has full aspect on Ve (10th aspect). This is good from money perspective.

Now Ve seems to be badly placed but here is the redemption:

1) It is getting strong NBRY from Me and Ju.
The NBRY is particularly strong because it occurs in 10H the strongest Kendra and is caused by Ju and Mar who are very good yogakarka for her.
Both of them combine together in 12H to form several yogas.
In facts all trikone and kendra lords combined together in one house forms a very strong rajyoga.
This rajayoga is not tainted due to association of Trinal lords Sun and Mercury. This makes the whole Rajayoga very auspicious.

In this Raja yoga only one planet is combust JU. But it functional benefic, in friendly sign with its dispositor. Jupiter also overcomes weakness by being in Sagittarius in D9.

It is very important to note that both Nk dispositor and Rasi dispositor of Ve are conjunct and forming rajayogas.

If you check the strongest planet in her chart capable of giving maximum results you will that it is Mercury.
Mercury is 10L.
Check Uccha, chesta and subh rashmi and ishta phala of Mercury.
Not only Mercury is causing neecha bhanga of Ve but is pretty capabale of producing results.

Sa is placed on Sg and is considered very good as per south Indian classical texts.

Now for woman husband is represented by Mars and Jupiter not by Venus. Venus is karaka for wife in men.
Here 7H lord is Mercury which I have explained is reasonably strong.
Now Ju, Ve and Me combine providing strength. Sa is aspecting 7H this means that marriage may not as happy as it seems outside. But karakas and owner are doing their job pretty well.
Moon is a malefic for her and will give her problems. It has has started recently. It has the ability to force her into retirement but it will bring some NBRY effects due to conjunction with Mars.
I heard she had an accident while riding a horse and was on leave for a good time.
Moon has to do its job of 8L. It will not be problematic due to NB, VRY due to 8L in 12H and association with all trinal and kendra lords.

My opinion is her success is due to magnified NBRY (Debilitated Venus with Ra).
The conduction of all planets causing NBRY and their association with other trinal and kendra lord make this very strong.

The other point is the consideration of alternate lagna.
Her moon lagna and sun lagna are same.
Just judge which is the strongest? I think her moon lagna is pretty strong.
I think if you just see the chart from Moon lagna all yogas are simply reconfirmed.
This makes her chart very strong.

DK yoga exists from rasi, moon lagna, sun lagna and arudha lagna.
Very strong yogas explains a lot of her professional success.

I will say her chart is strong despite debilitation of Venus.

I will not dissect married life.
Regards,

Ghrishneswar

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 08 Oct 2012

Many thanks for the detailed writeup Ghrishneswar sir!
Its obvious that you put a lot of thought into the dissection.
I hope you'll be able to shed light similarly for the upcoming charts as well.

I have a few questions, hope you'll be able to help out:

1. Is there any doubt here that Venus was benefic? Cause of her fame seems to be Venusian and the Dasa that kick started it also seems to be venus.

2. Thanks for pointing out that Venus is strengthened by both his Rasi Depositor and Nakshatra depositor being strong and that he gains NBRY. Thats a very significant point indeed. But does this turn malefic into a benefic?

3. Do you take vargottam debilitation as better than say normal debilitation or worse? IOW, does the varottam status improve the beneficience of the planet involved though it is vargottam debilitation, or does it make it worse.

4. Would you say mercury is well placed here? He is in drik house and is conjunct Mars. Since mars is in his own house, that does make merc strong too... but does that rectify the fact that he is enemically placed?
(The ishta bala I thought was simply directly porportional to proximity to exaltation point and motional strength and doesn't take into consideration aspect, conjunction & depositorship. So I'd assume its entirely possible for a graha to be enemically placed, yet high on ishta bala.)

Excellent point about the Rajayogas in the 12th. Sun with Jup forming DK, Merc with Mars also forming a DK.

5. We don't apply the word "combustion" to the moon, but here I suppose, moon is right inbetween both Sun and Jupiter... to add to it, he is in debility and varagottam debil as well. Would you not say that this taints the Raja yoga? Or does this debility as well stand cancelled to due to the NB that moon gains?

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by Ghrishneswar » 08 Oct 2012

Venus is not a benefic but because of NBRY it is providing RY effects.
It is providing good effects by virtue of being a weakened malefic. When your enemies beome weak it is good for you. But it still not in the same league as a benefic.

Vargottama positon does not mean that all malefic effects will be eliminated and it is controversial topic. My take is vargottama position makes the effects strong depending on agenda. Ve and Moon are both functional malefic and vargottama. Now Ve vargottama will make effects strong. It is causing NBRY so the effects of NBRY should be strong.
Moon is 8L but it is causing VRY. So VRY effects should be strong.

Vargottma does not make a bad planet act as benefic. It makes effects strong/memorable.

Planets have several ways by which they can derive strength. I will say Mercury is strong here despite being in an enemy sign in 12H. The different rashmi is support the fact. Being retrograde not combusted has provided strength to it. It is with its dispositor and conjunct functional benefic planets. All this adds strength to it. She got some honorary degrees despite being not too well educated(these are considered awards). Ketu in 4H broke her formal education. Mercury is not perfect but it is able to do its job pretty well. The ishta phala of Mercury is outstanding.
There is never cancellation of effects only modification. Being placed in enemy sign is a weakness but there are other factor that make it overall better.

Moon is not called combust but ultimately it is amavasya. This makes moon weak. Being a 8L and weak and placed n neecha sign makes it as weak as possible.
This turn out to be good and produces VRY.

It is tainting the rajayoga no doubt being weak is not able to accomplish much. It is suppressed by august company of all trikone and kendra lords. It still has to do its jobs and hence the accident in Feb. mars and moon combo in 12H. In fact another way to look is that Moon has now multiple auspicious planets to activate in VRY effects. 8L does and will cause issues no doubts. After all every one dies right so 8L always does its job.
Regards,

Ghrishneswar

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 08 Oct 2012

Thanks a lot Ghirishneswar!
I'd like to add.. Prashara exempts both Sun & Moon from being evil when they are 8L.

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 12 Oct 2012

If anything, I hope that this chart will serve as an example of how much there is to weave from the chart as whole, given the classics. Perhaps people that panic, looking at their charts and what the classics say, will hopefully bear this as an example in their minds to help realize, how much the isolated effect prescribed for a planet can get modified, when you combine all those isolated effects. To take them all and weave them together to come to an understanding on what it all means and see how things will play out combined, should take exceptional skill indeed. (Congratulations to all of you, that have been making successfull predictions!).

As a student of astrology, I'll certainly bear this chart in mind for long. For it helps you understand a certain point about debilitation.
This chart will probably make an addition to the long list of examples there in.
Read that *after* you've read what follows:


Jataka Parijata,
If Venus be in the sign Virgo occupying a Navamsa of Virgo, a beggar is born.
DOB:9 November 1841
TOB:10:48 LMT
POB:London U.K
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Edward VII
King of England and the British Dominions, Emperor of India (1901 - 1910)

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 12 Oct 2012

Edward was born at 10:48 in the morning on 9 November 1841 in Buckingham Palace. His parents were Queen Victoria and her husband Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. As the eldest son of the British sovereign, he was automatically Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay at birth. As a son of Prince Albert, he also held the titles of Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha and Duke of Saxony. Queen Victoria created her son Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester.

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Queen Victoria and Prince Albert were determined that their eldest son should have an education that would prepare him to be a model constitutional monarch. At age seven, Edward embarked on a rigorous educational programme devised by his Dad, and supervised by several tutors. Edward did not excel in his studies. He tried to meet the expectations of his parents, but to no avail. As Prince of Wales he did not meet his parent’s expectations of duty and during his mother’s long reign devoted himself to being self-indulgent. Although Edward was not a diligent student—his true talents were those of charm, sociability and tact—Benjamin Disraeli described him as informed, intelligent, and of sweet manner. He was likeable, sociable and outgoing.

After an educational trip to Rome, undertaken in the first few months of 1859, he spent the summer of that year studying at the University of Edinburgh. In October, he matriculated as an undergraduate at Christ Church, Oxford. Now released from the educational strictures imposed by his parents, he enjoyed studying for the first time and performed satisfactorily in examinations. In 1861, Edward transferred to Trinity College, Cambridge, where he was tutored in history by Charles Kingsley, Regius Professor of Modern History. Kingsley's efforts brought forth the best academic performances of Edward's life, and Edward actually looked forward to his lectures.

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 12 Oct 2012

Edward hoped to pursue a career in the British Army, but this was denied him because he was heir to the throne. His military ranks were honorary. In September 1861, Edward was sent to Germany, supposedly to watch military manoeuvres, but actually in order to engineer a meeting between him and Princess Alexandra of Denmark. Queen Victoria and Prince Albert had already decided that Edward and Alexandra should marry. They met at Speyer on 24 September. Edward and Alexandra were friendly from the start; the meeting went well for both sides, and marriage plans advanced. From this time, Edward gained a reputation as a playboy. Determined to get some army experience, Edward attended manoeuvres in Ireland, during which an actress, Nellie Clifden, was hidden in his tent by his fellow officers. Prince Albert, though ill, was appalled and visited Edward at Cambridge to issue a reprimand. Albert died in December 1861 just two weeks after the visit. Queen Victoria was inconsolable, wore mourning clothes for the rest of her life and blamed Edward for his father's death. At first, she regarded her son with distaste as frivolous, indiscreet and irresponsible. She wrote to her eldest daughter, "I never can, or shall, look at him without a shudder."

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In 1863 he married Alexandra of Denmark and the marriage was a reasonably happy producing 6 children. Edward had mistresses throughout his married life. He socialised with actress Lillie Langtry; Lady Randolph Churchill (mother of Winston Churchill); Daisy Greville, Countess of Warwick; actress Sarah Bernhardt; noblewoman Susan Pelham-Clinton; singer Hortense Schneider; prostitute Giulia Barucci; wealthy humanitarian Agnes Keyser; and Alice Keppel. At least fifty-five liaisons are conjectured. :shock: How far these relationships went is not always clear. Edward always strove to be discreet, but this did not prevent society gossip or press speculation. Alexandra tolerated his succession of mistresses. Having mistresses was at the time not uncommon amongst the aristocracy, but his mother despaired of him and kept him away from taking an active part in politics even after Albert's death and she was elderly and retired to Balmoral and Osborne. He was likeable, sociable and outgoing but became known as a playboy interested in horse racing, shooting, eating, drinking and other men’s wives.

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 12 Oct 2012

In 1871 Edward survived a serious illness of typhoid which had killed his father. This brush with death led to an improvement both in Edward's popularity with the public as well as in his relationship with his mother. Edward's recovery was greeted with almost universal relief. Edward cultivated politicians from all parties, including republicans, as his friends, and thereby largely dissipated any residual feelings against him.

Edward was well received abroad and as heir-apparent toured India in 1875. His advisors remarked on his habit of treating all people the same, regardless of their social station or colour. In letters home, he complained of the treatment of the native Indians by the British officials: "Because a man has a black face and a different religion from our own, there is no reason why he should be treated as a brute." At the end of the tour, his mother was given the title Empress of India by Parliament, in part as a result of the tour's success.

Edward was a patron of the arts and sciences and helped found the Royal College of Music.

He was regarded worldwide as an arbiter of men's fashions. He made wearing tweed, Homburg hats and Norfolk jackets fashionable, and popularised the wearing of black ties with dinner jackets, instead of white tie and tails. He pioneered the pressing of trouser legs from side to side in preference to the now normal front and back creases, and was thought to have introduced the stand-up turn-down shirt collar. A stickler for proper dress, he is said to have admonished the Prime Minister, Lord Salisbury, for wearing the trousers of an Elder Brother of Trinity House with a Privy Councillor's coat.


On his way to Denmark through Belgium on 4 April 1900 Edward was the victim of an attempted assassination, when Jean-Baptiste Sipido shot at him in protest over the Boer War. Sipido escaped to France; the perceived delay of the Belgian authorities in applying for extradition, combined with British disgust at Belgian atrocities in the Congo, worsened the already poor relationship between the United Kingdom and the Continent. However, in the next ten years, Edward's affability and popularity, as well as his use of family connections, assisted Britain in building European alliances.

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 12 Oct 2012

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When Queen Victoria died on 22 January 1901, Edward became King of the United Kingdom, Emperor of India and, in an innovation, King of the British Dominions. Edward VII and Alexandra were crowned on 9 August 1902, Edward's coronation had originally been scheduled for 26 June, but two days before on 24 June, Edward was diagnosed with appendicitis. Appendicitis was generally not treated operatively and carried a high mortality rate, but developments in anaesthesia and antisepsis in the preceding 50 years made life-saving surgery possible. Post the surgery, The next day, Edward was sitting up in bed, smoking
a cigar. Two weeks later, it was announced that the King was out of danger.

As king, Edward's main interests lay in the fields of foreign affairs and naval and military matters. Fluent in French and German, he made a number of visits abroad, and took annual holidays in Biarritz and Marienbad. Edward was related to nearly every other European monarch and came to be known as the "uncle of Europe".
Edward was rarely interested in politics, although his views on some issues were notably liberal for the time. During his reign he said use of the word nigger was "disgraceful" despite it then being in common arlance. On other matters he was less progressive: he did not, for example, favour giving votes to women. He was also opposed to Irish Home Rule, instead preferring a form of dual monarchy. Edward lived a life of luxury that was often far removed from that of the majority of his subjects. However, his personal charm with people at all levels of society and his strong condemnation of prejudice went some way to assuage republican and racial tensions building during his lifetime.

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The Edwardian era, which covered Edward's reign and was named after him, coincided with the start of a new century and heralded significant changes in technology and society, including powered flight and the rise of socialism. Edward played a role in the modernisation of the British Home Fleet, the reform of the Army Medical Services, and the reorganisation of the British Army after the Second Boer War. Edward fostered good relations between Great Britain and other European countries, especially France, for which he was popularly called "Peacemaker."

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