A study: Double Debilitation of Venus - for sagit lagna

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felix1
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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 12 Oct 2012

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Edward usually smoked twenty cigarettes and twelve cigars a day. Towards the end of his life he increasingly suffered from bronchitis. In March 1910, the King was staying at Biarritz when he collapsed. He remained there to convalesce, while in London Asquith tried to get the Finance Bill passed. The King's continued ill-health was unreported and he attracted criticism for staying in France whilst political tensions were so high. On 27 April he returned to Buckingham Palace, still suffering from severe bronchitis. 6 May, the King suffered several heart attacks, but refused to go to bed saying, "No, I shall not give in; I shall go on; I shall work to the end." Between moments of faintness, the Prince of Wales (shortly to be King George V) told him that his horse, Witch of the Air, had won at Kempton Park that afternoon. The King replied, "I am very glad": his final words. At 11:30 pm he lost consciousness for the last time and was put to bed. He died 15 minutes later.

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The Edwardian period was seen as golden age for the upper class in Europe and America, but society was changing – socialism, women suffragettes, the Labour party and trade unions were becoming powerful and the founding of Britain’s Welfare State. ‘We are all socialists now’ he is reported to have remarked. In an increasing democratic society Edward saw the importance of displaying the mystique of pomp and circumstance of the monarchy, and seeing and being seen by the people. A role he and his successors took to well.



Ghrishneswar
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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by Ghrishneswar » 12 Oct 2012

Felix,

Very good but as you probabaly already know, a planet has multiple significations and due to its neecha status any signification might not manifest in the right way. Venus is planet of prosperity, luxury but also wife and relationships. The neecha planet did not deny him material prosperity but as you have mentioned the number of mistress and liasons he had I am seeing something wrong here , it does not matter if it was fine for kings to keep mistress but the truth is he was playboy and that is not a positive manifestation.
His personal reputation sums it all
"outgoing but became known as a playboy interested in horse racing, shooting, eating, drinking and other men’s wives." In short he was very sensual. Being sensual is weakness and is one of the negative manifestataions of Planet Venus.
Venus is the vedhak(knower of weakness, capable of penetrating) of Sun (king of all planets). Why because sensuality represented by Venus deviates a king from his raja dharma (his kingly duties).
The neecha planet did manifest its weakness in this case.

And yes you have to always view the whole chart to see how opposing forces are playing.
There is always modification never cancellation.
Sometime the effects of planet are very personal and the world may not even come to know about it, a person may have weakness associated with planet but it is not visible to everyone. A person may have secret addictions/vices that are never visibale to anyone except people very close to them.

We should not discount a neecha a planet but it requires great effort and the good effects do not express easliy and naturally. Say a person with with debiliatd jupiter may find it it hard to decide if a decision/action is righteous or not. They may take the right decision in the end but it will involve significant effort.
Regards,

Ghrishneswar

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 12 Oct 2012

Ghrishneswar,

As always, thanks for the reply.
Ghrishneswar wrote: I am seeing something wrong here , it does not matter if it was fine for kings to keep mistress but the truth is he was playboy and that is not a positive manifestation.
To clarify:
I think you've got me wrong. Those were not my words about him, but excerpts of his biography as collected from various places in the internet. Please don't take the biography related writeups as my own, Quite naturally they are sourced elsewhere.

My words were what you see in the preamble before the details on him.
Ghrishneswar wrote:
a planet has multiple significations and due to its neecha status any signification might not manifest in the right way. Venus is planet of prosperity, luxury but also wife and relationships. The neecha planet did not deny him material prosperity but as you have mentioned the number of mistress and liasons
That is precisely my point.
If you see the preamble I've quoted this chart as an example for a Post that was written earlier by Astroboy. I think this is a nice illustration for the point he makes (or to be more precise, his Guru makes), about the nature of a debilitated planet, interms of inducing a frenzy in the native.

I've not yet summarized my views on the chart. I'll put out my beginners eye view of the astrological interpretation as I see it along with any questions I have tommorrow.

Many thanks for giving in your views.

Ghrishneswar
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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by Ghrishneswar » 12 Oct 2012

Felix,

I understand that these are not your words so no worries. Frenzy to compensate the weakness can cause use of all kinds of resources and means.
Carry on, I like this thread.
Regards,

Ghrishneswar

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 12 Oct 2012

Ghirshneswar,

Rereading my preamble, I can easily see how one can mistake what I intended to convey. I post a chart on debilitation and ask the chart be seen in total and its the chart of a king. This can easily be misunderstood as me saying the debilitation is cancelled. But thats not what I intended at all.

So to clarify futhur:

My preamble will probably make sense to beginners.
Many read a classic and find a prescription for a certain combination. We see it in our own chart and then are gripped with fear.
So one sees:
* I've Ve in Virgo in both D-1 & D-9,
* Jataka parijata says with such a combination, the native is described as born to be a beggar.

1 + 1 = 2 => OMG, what the hell is going to happen to me.
This sort of a fear happens to all of us and is actually very hard to quell, even when explained well that its irrational. The mind hooks onto: There is always the chance of pending doom. Hopefully, this chart can be one small additional factor that tries to bring reason back. I'd wish that reason to be:
Ok so thats what happens if Venus alone was in my chart and nothing else existed. Just two squares representing Virgo with Venus in it in the D-1 & D-9. But there is so much more, So What happens with my entire configuration?
As one can clearly see, Jataka Parijata's statement didn't happen verbatim here. The debilitation played out in a different way. Takes a lot of skill to weave it all together to see where and how it manifests! Hence I wrote on skill. (The talk on taking the chart as whole, is not to be mistaken as my claiming that the debilitation was cancelled by other combinations).

With that aside, the second thing I wrote about was in relation to astroboy's post, this is only because, I'm in agreement with your view point: clearly Venus's debilitation has indeed played out here.
The color coding probably gives you an idea of my views on Venus's influence in the chart.

Hope that clarifies on what I wrote.

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 12 Oct 2012

Coming to the astro part of it,

Lets get one thing straight: Would we call this a lack of sukha? Most certainly not. Esp so from the native's perspective. He was largely self indulgent in the earlier parts of his life and as stated in the article: "Edward lived a life of luxury that was often far removed from that of the majority of his subjects."

The second thing to note: His fame as well as infamy were Venusian in nature. For a king, he was not very political. Therewere only two things that interested him, as far as kingship goes: Military, he was largely responsible for reforms and overseeing a period when technology was rapidly evolving. The second thing being the more important one: He forged relationships between Britain and the rest of Europe.

In grasping that, two things standout in the chart: There is an exchange between Mars & Jupiter, the exchange is friendly, but the lagna lord gets placed in the 12th. We can say that his interests in military is probably explained by mars being the depositor of the lagna lord due to the exchange. But then the LL is almost out of Scorpio. (If one takes SSS, I'm sure he'll move over onto Sagi and become ownhouse). Mars is also one of the strongest planets in his chart! and in own house in Navamsa. However he was not known as Edward VII The fierce warrior, He was known as Edward VII "The Peacemaker". Why? Mars's agenda in this chart is the 5th house (children, intelligence, luck, gambling or betting, love affairs) and 12th house (bed pleasures, hospital beds). Thus for sagitarrians, the 5th house and the 12th house are naturally connected. Such a mars, aspects the 7th house and deposits the 7th lord as well. Quite clearly, mars will give the 5th and 12th house results, connecting it with the 7th house. The 7th house is badly afflicted, the lord is not to well placed and he is a peak mangalik. However mars is friendly to the lagna lord and well placed in both Rasi and Navamsa. Perhaps this is why he had 6 children and no dearth for 12th house significations, 2 close brushes with death due to illness also included. The LL being in the 12th we also see that he was self indulgent and led a lavish life style.

All the kendra lords here are in 12th. Ju & Me conjunction is a Rajayoga, since it is kendra & kona lord conjunction, but prashara doesn't list either of them as being beneficial to the Lagna, perhaps due to KD dosha. Ju & Ma exchange could have been more of an Rajayoga, but jupiter is so much in the edge.
Combinations for wealth: 2nd and 5th lord conjunct in lagna. Saturn is deviod of digbala though. From the moon, the 2nd lord is Venus, Saturn is 5th lord,
5th lords aspect falls on 2nd lord who is in lagna. But here the 2nd lord is well placed. His wealth was not self earned, but rather he was born into a rich family. Hence not focusing on the 11th. The 8th lord moon isn't very well placed but has the aspect of the LL jupiter and 5th lord mars. I'm still not sort of convinced on this aspect, I'd not have guessed looking into this chart, that the native was super rich. Perhaps someone else can throw light?

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by felix1 » 12 Oct 2012

The chart has another debilitation as well: That of sun. Sun is not well placed in D-9 either. He was apolitical but nevertheless Royalty. His parents opinion of him wasn't a good one. If a debilitated planet induces a frenzy, would be nice if someone could elaborate here on what frenzy the sun induced in him. Similarly what frenzy did Venus induce in Kelly's chart? Perhaps thats what propelled her to become prominent in society? In kelly's case, there is also the doubt that not as much details of her is available as is for Royalty and too make matters worse, Ve was with Rahu, thus capable of cloaking things with the shroud of secrecy.

Either way, In both Kelly's case and Edwards case, Venus has played a very prominent role in their fame and lives.

More importantly I'd like to get other peoples opinion on the 6th & 11th house in both Kelly's & Edwards chart. Remember Venus is supposed to be the peak malefic for this Lagna. In kelly's case I'd say clearly Venus turned benefic. In this one, he has been both beneficial and maleficient.
In Kelly's case, Venus attained neecha banga. I suppose here as well, Venus attains neecha bhanga being at a kendra from both moon & lagna. Unlike Kelly, Edward did not live to see a Venus MD.


September 1861 - Meeting with Alexandra. Rah-Rah-Ven.
December 1861 - Farther death, 2 weeks after the Ireland episode. Rah-Rah-Ven.
10-Mar-1863 - Married Alexandra. Rah-Jup-Sat

1871 - Typhoid. Brush with death. Turning point. Ended up increasing popularity with both people and the Queen. Rah-Ven-Ven
J. B. Priestley recalled, "I was only a child when he succeeded Victoria in 1901, but I can testify to his extraordinary popularity. He was in fact the most popular king England had known since the earlier 1660s."

4-Apr-1900 - Assasination Attempt. Sat-Ket-Jup.
24 June 1902 - Brush with death. Appendicitis. Cancelled coronation. Sat-Ven-Jup.
9-Aug-1902 - Coronation. Sat-Ven-Jup.
6-May-1910 - Death. Sat-Jup-Jup. (Final struggle began in Mar 1910, Sat-Rah-Mars).

Would appreciate if other more experienced people could give their readings of the chart as well.

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of the planet of Sukha - Ve

Post by BoldrinMichael » 26 Jan 2019

She has "Neecha Bhanga Raja Yoga" based on the position of Moon, Mars,Mercury and Venus. Her Moon is in Scorpio ascendant, Lord of Scorpio ascendant- Mars is with Moon. Venus debilitated in Virgo but Mercury -the lord of Virgo is with Moon.Therefore Her debilitated Venus canceled and exalted in D1 and D9. She will live like a emperor in her profession and personal life. Lord of 6th house-Venus-and Lord of 11th house-Venus stands in 10th house. so she will live in the limelight...
Last edited by ChandraLagna on 26 Jan 2019, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed the multiple quoted lines that are un-necessary.

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of Venus - for sagit lagna

Post by BoldrinMichael » 26 Jan 2019

If there is no cancellation of "Necha"- debilitation or aspects of Jupiter---- If Venus be in the sign Virgo occupying a Navamsa of Virgo, a beggar is born will be the true.

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of Venus - for sagit lagna

Post by joyd » 26 Jan 2019

@BM-We have to take the lordships of both mercury and venus in such condition[beggar yogas].Just by mere vargottama condition of venus cant decide the final outcome.

joyd.

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Re: A study: Double Debilitation of Venus - for sagit lagna

Post by joyd » 26 Jan 2019

@bm-forget to add one more point,their dispositors positions also ply key role in final outcome too.

joyd.

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