Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

For discussion on planets, houses, signs, nakshatras, etc.
Forum rules
READ Forum-Wide Rules and Guidelines NOTICE: OFFENSIVE POSTS WILL BE DELETED, AND OFFENDERS WILL HAVE ALL POSTS MODERATED.
Post Reply
masasmasas
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 38
Joined: 16 Oct 2013

Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by masasmasas » 20 Dec 2018

Hi learned members,

I recently came across an article in which it was written that Saturn damages the 12th house relative to it's position as it was lame. I doubted it but when I went through few of my charts I found it could be plausible. What are your views.?

Also another question let's say if a planet is debilitated and it exchanges nakshatra with another planet. Does it influence it's debilitation and if so in what sense. I would be grateful if you could answer this as in my chart many planets(4) are debilitated and two of them are exchanging nakshatras(with different non debilitated planets).

Thanks in advance



astrostar
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 554
Joined: 21 Dec 2017

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by astrostar » 20 Dec 2018

masasmasas wrote:
20 Dec 2018
I recently came across an article in which it was written that Saturn damages the 12th house relative to it's position as it was lame. I doubted it but when I went through few of my charts I found it could be plausible. What are your views.?
Yes. Not only Saturn, every planet influences 2,12 houses from its position.
This effect is known as 'argala' or 'karthari'.
For malefics, it is papa-aragala; for benefics, subha-argala.

masasmasas wrote:
20 Dec 2018
Also another question let's say if a planet is debilitated and it exchanges nakshatra with another planet. Does it influence it's debilitation and if so in what sense. I would be grateful if you could answer this as in my chart many planets(4) are debilitated and two of them are exchanging nakshatras(with different non debilitated planets).
case 1 -
Planet C in a star ruled by a debilitation planet D.
The results given by such planet C would be lesser; as if, planet C is in its debilitation sign.

case 2 -
Debilitated planet D in a star ruled by a non-debilitation planet C.
Planet D can give results in a normal way, as if, planet D is in a non-debilitation sign.

Inference -
Planet K passes on its qualities, quantities to a planet N that occupies K's star.
Luminous Omnipotent Valley of Astrology

User avatar
Shivoham
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 226
Joined: 27 Nov 2017
Location: Jaipur, Rajasthan

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by Shivoham » 20 Dec 2018

Hi Astro star,
This exchanging Nakshatra thing is interesting but I have two subquestions in this regard.

1. Does this Debaliation & exchange Nakshatra thing works in case of Rahu Ketu?
For eg. Rahu in Sagittarius in Moola (Ketu Nakshatra) therefore Ketu will be in Ardra Nakshatra ( Rahu Nakshatra) Will it still apply & how?

2. What if exchange of Nakshatra is happening within a sign & multiple planets are present? In Taurus, Krittika is ruled by Moon & Rohini by Chandra, now for instance Sun is in Rohini along with Mercury & Venus but Moon on the other hand is in Krittika. Now who will give whose results? How will the lordship be affected due to this?
Regards,
Shivoham

astrostar
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 554
Joined: 21 Dec 2017

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by astrostar » 20 Dec 2018

Shivoham wrote:
20 Dec 2018
1. Does this Debaliation & exchange Nakshatra thing works in case of Rahu Ketu?
For eg. Rahu in Sagittarius in Moola (Ketu Nakshatra) therefore Ketu will be in Ardra Nakshatra ( Rahu Nakshatra) Will it still apply & how?
Yes, works and applies.

Rahu is in Moola star ruled by Ketu.
Take, all Ketu's significations, such as sign lord, conjunctions, aspects, etc.
Rahu gets all those from Ketu.

Ketu is in Ardra.
Take all Rahu's significations, such as sign lord, conjunctions, aspects, etc.
Ketu gets all those from Rahu.

Shivoham wrote:
20 Dec 2018
2. What if exchange of Nakshatra is happening within a sign & multiple planets are present? In Taurus, Krittika is ruled by Moon & Rohini by Chandra, now for instance Sun is in Rohini along with Mercury & Venus but Moon on the other hand is in Krittika. Now who will give whose results? How will the lordship be affected due to this?
If Sun is in Rohini along with Mercury and Venus, then,
all these 3, will get significations from Moon.

If Moon is in krittika, then
Moon gets significations from Sun.


Regards
Luminous Omnipotent Valley of Astrology

User avatar
Shivoham
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 226
Joined: 27 Nov 2017
Location: Jaipur, Rajasthan

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by Shivoham » 20 Dec 2018

Hi Astro star,
Quoting case 1 from the above three cases-
"Planet C in a star ruled by a debilitation planet D.
The results given by such planet C would be lesser; as if, planet C is in its debilitation sign."
What if these planets are involved in Neech Bhanga Raj Yoga like debaliated in D-1 but exalted in Navamsha? What sorts of results be given by such planets. As the planets get exalted, will they give higher results or does it apply after a particular age?
Regards,
Shivoham

astrostar
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 554
Joined: 21 Dec 2017

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by astrostar » 21 Dec 2018

Shivoham wrote:
20 Dec 2018
"Planet C in a star ruled by a debilitation planet D.
The results given by such planet C would be lesser; as if, planet C is in its debilitation sign."
What if these planets are involved in Neech Bhanga Raj Yoga like debaliated in D-1 but exalted in Navamsha? What sorts of results be given by such planets. As the planets get exalted, will they give higher results or does it apply after a particular age?
If there is NBRY, then, it is definitely beneficial. No doubt.
e.g. Take Shri Abdul Kalam chart; his asc lord Moon debilitated and got NBRY.
e.g. Take Einstein chart; his Mercury, Moon debilitated and got NBRY.

Yes. It takes some time in terms of years, depending on number of
supporting/cancellation planets and their strength, which are available for a debilitated planet.

Definitely, they give higher auspicious results in right DBA.

Navamsa rules inner persona, ethics, marriage, fortune, etc. of the native.
If a planet is exalted in Navamsa, it applies to all concepts related to navamsa only.
As D9 rules vital aspects of one's life, exaltation/own-sign in D9 is always considered
auspicious for all D9 matters.

So, I repeat....
Planet C in a star ruled by a debilitation planet D.
The results given by such planet C would be lesser; as if, planet C is in its debilitation sign.
In case, planet D gets NBRY, then, planet C also slowly gains extra power to give results.


Regards
Luminous Omnipotent Valley of Astrology

masasmasas
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 38
Joined: 16 Oct 2013

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by masasmasas » 21 Dec 2018

I think this chart has few of the cases discussed and it is true that the points discussed do play a role here as his sun mahadasha didn't go very well as expected despite being exalted and lagna Lord.

DoB 22.04.1993
ToB 14.30
PoB Bahraich

astrostar
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 554
Joined: 21 Dec 2017

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by astrostar » 22 Dec 2018

masasmasas wrote:
21 Dec 2018
I think this chart has few of the cases discussed and it is true that the points discussed do play a role here as his sun mahadasha didn't go very well as expected despite being exalted and lagna Lord.

DoB 22.04.1993
ToB 14.30
PoB Bahraich
The reason for bad Sun dasa, was not due to occupying a star ruled by a debilitated planet.

Here is the analysis...
Sun is with Moon in 8th house
Ketu represents Moon, 12th lord.
Sun is being controlled by 8th lord Jupiter.
So, Sun has got 1,2,5,8,10,12 significations, in which, 1,5,8,12 combination is bad.
Luminous Omnipotent Valley of Astrology

masasmasas
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 38
Joined: 16 Oct 2013

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by masasmasas » 22 Dec 2018

So by that logic moon dasha should be slightly better because of
Location 8th house
Ketu is nakshatra Lord 10,12
Sub Lord Mercury 2,8,11
So significations come out to be 2,8,8,10,11,12,12 or because of 8 and 12 house being repeated it would be bad as well.

astrostar
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 554
Joined: 21 Dec 2017

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by astrostar » 22 Dec 2018

masasmasas wrote:
22 Dec 2018
So by that logic moon dasha should be slightly better because of
Location 8th house
Ketu is nakshatra Lord 10,12
Sub Lord Mercury 2,8,11
So significations come out to be 2,8,8,10,11,12,12 or because of 8 and 12 house being repeated it would be bad as well.
You missed 6H signification.
Moon signifying 12,8,2,11,8,6,7,6
Though there are some negatives like dependency, high responsibility, depression;
finally, native gains success.
Luminous Omnipotent Valley of Astrology

User avatar
snsharma
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 84
Joined: 20 Jun 2018

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by snsharma » 06 Jan 2019

If saturn is debilitated or weak,still can it influence 2,12 houses from its position?
what if saturn gets a benefic aspect from Ju? In that case, will it influence the adjacent houses +vely?

astrostar
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 554
Joined: 21 Dec 2017

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by astrostar » 06 Jan 2019

snsharma wrote:
06 Jan 2019
If saturn is debilitated or weak,still can it influence 2,12 houses from its position?
yes, even debilitated Saturn can influence 2,12.
snsharma wrote:
06 Jan 2019
what if saturn gets a benefic aspect from Ju? In that case, will it influence the adjacent houses +vely?
positive influence may not be there, but, yes, Saturn's negative influence can be reduced on adjacent houses, if it gets benefic aspects from Jupiter.
if Saturn strongly signifies 1st house or 5th house, without 8,12, badhaka link, then, can expect positive influence. Saturn's 9H ownership and signification for Gemini/Aries asc can also helps. This 9H ownership and signification for Gemini/Aries asc, happens only with placidus house system.
Luminous Omnipotent Valley of Astrology

User avatar
snsharma
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 84
Joined: 20 Jun 2018

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by snsharma » 08 Jan 2019

Astrostar,
Regarding Nakshatra exchange,
Which takes precedence.. Nakshatra lord or Pada lord?
For example Ketu is placed ( Pieces) in Uttara bhadrapada-2.Nakshatra lord is saturn and pada lord is Mercury.
How will Ketu behave? Will it give the result of Saturn or Mercury?
It has been said in general "Kuja vat Ketu".In the above case ,can we expect Mar's result?
( Example given is for Sagittarius ascendant where Ketu is placed in 4 th house aspected by Mars from the 9th house)

astrostar
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 554
Joined: 21 Dec 2017

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by astrostar » 08 Jan 2019

snsharma wrote:
08 Jan 2019
Regarding Nakshatra exchange,
Which takes precedence.. Nakshatra lord or Pada lord?
Nakshatra lord
snsharma wrote:
08 Jan 2019
For example Ketu is placed ( Pieces) in Uttara bhadrapada-2. Nakshatra lord is saturn and pada lord is Mercury. How will Ketu behave? Will it give the result of Saturn or Mercury?
Ketu is not given any signs in zodiac.
Being in Pisces sign, Ketu initially behaves like Jupiter in D1. So,
- study the house ownership and house placement of Jupiter in D1 chart
- next, being in Saturn star, Ketu gives the result of Saturn in D1 chart.

Ketu behaves like Mercury in D9 chart; so study Mercury house ownership and placement in D9.

snsharma wrote:
08 Jan 2019
It has been said in general "Kuja vat Ketu".In the above case ,can we expect Mar's result?
No. Never.

Rules in BPHS are misinterpreted in many books.
Even "MA. Phd. in English" experts also not understanding the rules in BPHS.
They are only observing grammar and syntax without inner meaning.
English language qualification is useless to understand essence of astrology.

"Kuja vat Ketu" means Ketu doesn't give the result of Mars in any chart.

The actual meaning is "Kuja vat Ketu" is -
Ketu behaves exactly like Mars. (or)
Ketu is a fiery planet like Mars. (or)
Most of Ketu characteristics, behavior would be very similar to Mars.

snsharma wrote:
08 Jan 2019
( Example given is for Sagittarius ascendant where Ketu is placed in 4 th house aspected by Mars from the 9th house)
Yes. Now, Ketu gives results of Mars.
Ketu gives the results of aspecting planet.
It is a rule.

Even the aspect doesn't work, if the "orb of aspect" is more than 10°. So, check it once.
Luminous Omnipotent Valley of Astrology

joyd
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 3480
Joined: 26 Aug 2017

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by joyd » 08 Jan 2019

@masa-In a clear sense such saturn blocks the 12th house significations for longer periods from his placement.It is called MANTLE[shield] or "Achhadan"[to cover] in sanskrit or" chaddar" In Hindi.so the word damage is not a correct one in my view.THe word block has its own deep meaning when we comes in to its application[predictive] part in charts.

joyd.

hari766
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 518
Joined: 27 Jul 2013

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by hari766 » 08 Jan 2019

astrostar wrote:
08 Jan 2019
Ketu is not given any signs in zodiac.
Being in Pisces sign, Ketu initially behaves like Jupiter in D1. So,
- study the house ownership and house placement of Jupiter in D1 chart
- next, being in Saturn star, Ketu gives the result of Saturn in D1 chart.

Ketu behaves like Mercury in D9 chart; so study Mercury house ownership and placement in D9.
In my chart Ketu is in 12Aries31' (Aswi naxatra) while Rahu is in 12Libra31' (Swati naxatra).
So since Ketu is in his own naxatra, how will his results be? (Sagittarius lagna)

Ketu is aspected by Kuja from 10H and Sani from 8H

astrostar
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 554
Joined: 21 Dec 2017

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by astrostar » 08 Jan 2019

hari766 wrote:
08 Jan 2019
In my chart Ketu is in 12Aries31' (Aswi naxatra) while Rahu is in 12Libra31' (Swati naxatra).
So since Ketu is in his own naxatra, how will his results be? (Sagittarius lagna)
If Ketu is in own star, study ketu's house placement, and sign lord significations.
hari766 wrote:
08 Jan 2019
Ketu is aspected by Kuja from 10H and Sani from 8H
Assign Kuja, Sani house ownership, placement significations to Ketu,
only if aspect orb is less than 10°.

Here you have to use placidus house system.
Equal or whole sign house system are not useful and you won't get correct inferences.
Luminous Omnipotent Valley of Astrology

hari766
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 518
Joined: 27 Jul 2013

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by hari766 » 09 Jan 2019

Thanks Astrostar ji, for the explanation.

Neha M

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by Neha M » 10 Jan 2019

astrostar wrote:
08 Jan 2019
Here you have to use placidus house system.
Equal or whole sign house system are not useful and you won't get correct inferences.
We have borrowed Astrology completely from sages. So, we need to follow what they say. Now, they have strictly recommended to follow equal house division. now who are we to decide when sages have told different from the above?
Thus, correct inferences could be understood only from sages method not by unequal house distribution.

Dashas
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 80
Joined: 24 Jan 2019

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by Dashas » 17 Feb 2019

As this thread talks about nakshtra exchange and that if rahu and ketu are in each others nakshtra, they exchange their significations,sign lord, conjuctions, aspects etc. I have a few questions on this:

1. In this case, what would happen to other planets for example, mars in rahu's nakshtra and sun in ketu's nakshtra? Would mars behave like it is in ketu's and sun as if in rahu's?
2. How would dasha of rahu and ketu work out? Again acting as each other??
3. What happens to conjuction with another planet? For example, Mars ketu would act as mars rahu??

Please enlighten

astrostar
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 554
Joined: 21 Dec 2017

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by astrostar » 20 Feb 2019

Dashas wrote:
17 Feb 2019
if rahu and ketu are in each others nakshtra, they exchange their
significations,
sign lord,
conjunctions,
aspects etc.
yes, correct.
Rahu and ketu are like wildcards (jokers) in a deck of cards. For this reason, usually, they tend to signify too many houses in every chart and many many miracle things/events (bad) do happen to natives within 7 years of very short Ketu dasa compared to 18 years of Rahu dasa. This is the highest maya (illusion) designed for living beings on earth.
Dashas wrote:
17 Feb 2019
1. In this case, what would happen to other planets for example, mars in rahu's nakshtra and sun in ketu's nakshtra? Would mars behave like it is in ketu's and sun as if in rahu's?
mars is in rahu's star, rahu is in ketu's star.
Now, mars gives the results of rahu's and ketu's sign lord and occupied houses results.
Dashas wrote:
17 Feb 2019
2. How would dasha of rahu and ketu work out? Again acting as each other??
rahu is in ketu's star, ketu is in rahu's star.
in rahu dasha, rahu gives its own sign lord, its occupied house, ketu's sign lord, ketu occupied house results. Same thing applies to ketu also.
Dashas wrote:
17 Feb 2019
3. What happens to conjunction with another planet? For example, Mars ketu would act as mars rahu??
No. it won't work like that. Conjunction is different from getting signification of a house.
Luminous Omnipotent Valley of Astrology

Dashas
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 80
Joined: 24 Jan 2019

Re: Does Saturn damage the house which is 12th to it?

Post by Dashas » 20 Feb 2019

Thank you, astrostar.

Post Reply